Sunday, 1 May 2011

Depersonalise Comments to Improve this Blog

I make great efforts to write what I consider to be topical and interesting pieces on this blog. Sometimes I succeed better than other times. I am constantly hopeful that people who comment will join in the debate making substantive argument. I do not expect or want everyone to agree with me. I give my honestly held opinion but it is not one that is right or wrong. It is just that: an opinion. I would like people to comment with opinion and good argument and prove my views wrong or convince me to change them.

More frequently than not, I get personalised views about individuals in politics. I can and do publish some of these but often they are unpublishable. I will continue to publish those that I am of the view are publishable. I would make a plea, however, that commentators should try to make substantive points and arguments. Using this blog in that fashion would make it much more interesting, constructive and useful in forming opinion in Gibraltar.

The personalised comments unfortunately reflect the personality based nature of politics in Gibraltar. This is something that I am campaigning to change with my quest for electoral and parliamentary reforms, so I find personalised comments a contradiction to that which I am seeking to achieve. The present electoral system converts the 10 votes that each voter has into one vote for a president who is known as the Chief Minister. This fact alone militates to comparisons  being made as between one potential candidate for the post of Chief Minister and another and criticisms of each. I would ask readers who comment to please attempt to avoid this type of personalised commentary.

It may well be that the prediction that this coming electoral campaign will be dirty may come true. I will not consciously allow this blog to be taken over by those who may attempt to turn it into an instrument for such a campaign. Despite the likelihood of criticism from some sectors of my readership, I will make every effort to apply this policy on this blog.My plea would be for the campaign to remain clean. This plea does not mean that facts that are relevant for voters to make an informed decision should not be made public but not through the instrumentality of this blog. It is not the purpose of this blog to do that nor do I have the resources to research and investigate any or every allegation which may be made.

Gibraltar goes to the polls, under the present electoral system, not to elect a government and opposition but a presidential Chief Minister. The Chief Minister is the embodiment of what Gibraltar is. He mirrors to the outside world the morals and values that Gibraltar represents. These are, at least, honesty, trust, transparency, openness, security, safety, good governance and a good reputation as a place to visit and to do business in and from. The continued economic prosperity and success of Gibraltar are dependent on avoiding any circumstances that may undermine these. Those who offer themselves to the electorate as candidates have the primary responsibility and duty to ensure that these values are not put at risk. If they take a decision to offer themselves up for election they should accept that they will be closely scrutinised. That alone does not make a campaign a dirty campaign.

My personal sadness is that the risks of the personal circumstances of anyone elected to the office of  Chief Minister having an adverse effect on Gibraltar are heightened by the democratic deficit that exists in Gibraltar. The very fact that our electoral system results in the election of a presidential style Chief Minister magnifies that risk, should the person offering himself or herself for election to that office be found to be wanting. If the electoral system was reformed to elect a truly representative government from amongst whom a Chief Minister would emerge, the risk would be somewhat diluted. I maintain my position that the electoral system needs urgent reform for the benefit of Gibraltar. Parliamentary reform will consequntly be needed and is needed irrespective of electoral reform. 


  1. One suggestion for cleaning up the election campaign. Perhaps all lawyers standing should be required to submit their client accounts for thorough scrutity before being permitted to stand?

    Since the Marrache & Co saga began well over a year now, the legal profession has not got its act together and implemented stricter controls and neither has legislation been imposed on the profession.

    Barristocracy dominates the political arena, but how can the electroate (especially those of us who lost money with Marraches) know whether other law firms (most of them, our politicians)are as clean as they purport to be? With all due respect to RV who has said that he has been championing stricter control of lawyers financial affairs for some time, no doubt we will never know how it is that this profession seem to be so cash rich and therefore able to dabble in politics to their hearts content as it will doubtless be unlikely that the lawyers themselves or the politicians (dominated by lawyers) will ordain any restrospective scrutiny of their financial affairs.

  2. Constructive criticism: You have said all this before. Be careful that you do not become a one issue candidate. It is becoming boring.

  3. yawn....zzzzzzz....who has run out of ideas?

  4. ROBERT, I think its very noble of you to present this argument for no 'personalisation' in the comments.

    I just cant help asking myself why you left it so long? or ironically, why you have been so quick to come up with this new (and valid) rule?

    Could you be protecting anyone by any chance? Is this fair when you have allowed comments and criticisms of all 'colours' up until now?

    I think not.


  6. Anon 13:39, it seems that this will not be the case this time as the most recent and historically accurate election poll indicates otherwise, and also because postal votes from those abroad will hopefully be included in the final tally as opposed to what happened last time due to the postal strike in the UK.

    My understanding is that the 6 month residence rule you make reference to has been around since before the GSD administration came into power, but it doesn't mean they shouldn't have taken steps to change it. It's ridiculous that someone living in Gibraltar for much less than a single Government term should have any say about what direction Gibraltar should travel in moving forwards.

  7. Anonymous at 10:25 and 10:43 castigate me for repetition whilst Anonymous at 12:59 castigates me for leaving this rule unsaid for too long. I guess one can never win but the reality is that Anonymous at 10:25 and 10:43 are right. I have made this rule before. I was simply making a plea fro people to help abide by it.

    And Anonymous at 12:59 As to who I am protecting, well I assure you that I get more comments that I do no publish that are critical of Government ministers and making outrageous allegations against them than anyone else, so you tell me who I have been protecting? I assure you I try to be impartial. Also if you read my piece I have not said that I will NOT publish. I have asked people to desist. I assure you this plea cuts bot ways for and against both the GSD and the GSLP.

    As to running out of ideas, well this has been a very silly week of bank holidays so there has not been much in the news to write about! I challenge most people to write interestingly about Gibraltar twice a week. It is not an easy task! I do my best, sorry if it is not good enough for some of you. A few professional journalists in Gibraltar have congratulated me for being so prolific. I guess one cannot please everyone all of the time!

    I will try harder but remember this is not my full time occupation :)

  8. es the last thing we need is another Marrache saga - there has to be close scrutiny on high profile players senior lawyers in the arena and even those close who it seems have an influence over issues and politicians.

  9. RV: I believe that a measure of self-restraint should be maintained when discussing candidates/politicians however people should be able to voice their opinions on them as candidates/politicians, it is after all an opinion. I have recently sensed a measure of protectionism in your blog.

    On the issue raised by Anon 09:18 I completely agree. However I seriously doubt that anything effective will be done to look into the activities of lawyers, they do have the run of politics in Gibraltar and look after their own and, in all fairness, a few other people in key positions, all in a 'you scratch my back and i'll give you a ton of fees' of course. The Marrache & Co scandal is a prime example of how thing are swept under the carpet.
    Lawyers are self regulated (Bar Council), a position which many other professional groups would love to be in. The occassional, in-effective client account review by the FSC is merely a formality and a pointless excercise maintained for appearances sake.
    I would like to see a more balanced political scene in Gibraltar including people from other backgrounds rather than 90% lawyers and 10% token retired teachers/other.

    On the 6 month eligibility to vote rule. I do not know who instigated it, GSD, GSLP... I'm not too interested either. Rather than looking to the past Gibraltar would be better served by looking to the future and dropping this history of mudslinging and 'with me or against me attitute'. Its rediculous that a person having been in Gibraltar for 6 months gets a say in our future and the rule should be changed.

  10. To clarify some issues about lawyers. The legal profession is not regulated by the Bar Council. Regulation and discipline is by the Chief Justice on the advice of the Admissions and Disciplinary Committee. The FSC do not regulate lawyers at all, not even to review client accounts. Client accounts are by law required to be audited by an independent firm of auditors every year. New legislation is in preparation to strengthen and improve the arrangements.

    On a measure of protectionism that is a perception which I believe is brought about by Fabian Picardo becoming the Leader of the Opposition and the belief that I will not publish certain allegations made. This policy was adopted by me long, long ago and it arose not to protect Fabian Picardo or anyone else. It is to protect me against accusations of defamation. I have exp[lained this over and over again. I adopted the policy for that reason but if truth be known it protects government ministers against allegations against much much more than any other persons.

  11. A quick google search of the Admissions & Disciplinary Committee throws up names of lawyers that form it, therefore, self-regulation.
    And the solution?...more legislation drafted by lawyers for lawyers... forgive my scepticism! sounds like an effort of making an show for apperances sake in view of the Marrache scandal but lets hope i'm proved wrong.
    I really do think that for Gibraltar to change positively we need to loosen the grip from those few people that control Gibraltar for their own gain to the detriment of others. it is wishful thinking I know...
    I have always agreed with your views (RV) on freedom of speech and respect you for speaking out publicly, the climate in Gibraltar certainly feels to me that if you step out of line you'll be punished for it. Gibraltar needs real change, not just a substitution of players but keeping the game unchanged.


  13. What does it matter who was responsible for the regulation of lawyers accounts, the point is there were NO SUFFICIENT CONTROLS AND THAT REMAINS THE CASE.

    RV is correct, it is the Chief Justice with advice from the Admissions and Disciplinary committee who are responsible for solicitors accounts. The FSC only regulates financial services entities - trust, company management companies, etc. The truth is, however, that most lawyers ALSO have financial services companies. Therefore where lawyers also have company management and trust companies, in theory at least (and as was the case with Marraches), there are usually two relevant regulatory bodies - the CJ with advice from the ADC (made up of Gibraltar lawyers) and the FSC

    Anon at 17.35, yes of course a lot of people lost money and a hell of a lot of money at that, not just clients whose money should have been in the law firm's client account, but clients of their financial services companies, a whole host of general creditors, banks and staff. This information is public knowledge.

    You may recall that soon after Marraches collapsed, emergency laws were very swiftly passed to enable the Marrache saga to be dealt with.

    So why then were emergency laws not passed equally quickly opening up lawyers accounts for scrutinisation going back a reasonable amount of time, say 5 years?? Why have such laws still not been put in place?? RV tells us that new legislation is in preparation. Why is it taking so long. One would have thought that lawyers would be falling over themselves to demonstrate that this was just an unfortunate case of one rotten apple, but no THINGS STAY EXACTLY THE WAY THEY WERE. As our lawyers are also our politicians, says a lot for the credibility of Gibraltar politics doesnt it.

    Trouble is that one day there will be a criminal trial and maybe also disgruntled Marrache clients will sue those regulators/controllers they believe to be responsible for their losses. Those cases, along with criticisms of failures in regulation and control, will arouse intense interest from OUTSIDE Gibraltar. If the barristocracy are left with serious egg on their faces, then who will we turn to as politicians..... Whilst it would be good for Gibraltar for the lawyers to release their domination of politics, it won't do our INTERNATIONAL REPUTATION much good will it now.

  14. I thought this particular blog was about depersonalize to improve this blog ? depersonalizing will make the blog stronger but its doing the opposite,commenting on personalised views about individuals,closely scrutinised and bordering character assassination. does not help your cause i must say.

  15. Ghost says:
    Part 1

    It's a long one...........

    Robert, I appreciate your comments, and I feel for you and the work you do on this blog to a point (only to a point though..:) . Unfortunately though I believe it will be hard to change the feeling and sentiment often expressed in this blog and it is sadly a reflection of the realities of party politics. Gutter politics, dirty campaigns, spin, playing to the gallery, all are synonymous in the political arena and like it or not become very relevant in an election year. Don't get me wrong, I personally do not condone this style of politics which I fear your blog will feature in, purely by the fact that it is medium where people and party can express views strong, mild, relevant and not; but the fact remains that as we near elections fever is high and is in most other democratic elections around the world, not least the U.S. the U.K and other major economies the depth and feeling in your political belief will result in heightened tensions and it will get aggressive. Nevertheless I also firmly believe that the maturity of our democracy will prevail and will ultimately show our politics and elections from being anything other than a strongly vocal fight underpinned by the vision, strength of leadership, depth in candidature and the direction and political strategy that political parties chose to adopt and take. Gibraltar would not be what it is today without these realities.

    I think in the past we have generally agreed that parliamentary reforms which were actually spearheaded by the GSD and which you have rightly pointed out have not been executed to date are most definitely required. I think our differences have lied in the extent that one wishes to take these reforms and how that might preclude Govts ability to function and perform; I know to that we have debated on the principle of free elections being the fundamental of any democracy and to what extent one should or can have mechanisms to check and balance the executive arm of Govt in there quest to follow through with their manifesto commitments. I agree that bringing the legislative arm up to speed is required and indeed the reforms proposed by the GSD Govt and indeed other members involved in the drafting of the new constitution requires it (I believe) to be implemented.

    Your interpretation of the presidential style Cheif Minister has in my view not served us badly so far, I relate this to all previous CM's before being pounded by other bloggers; but it is your reference to the embodiment of what a CM might represent that I find interesting; before I delve into this, I will maintain that a party political system is in my view a fair and effective way of running our affairs and do not believe that your ambitions of introducing independent candidates that fall into line to form a party to run a Govt is feasible or constructive and adds weight to the strength in the Govt that Gibraltar so desperately requires. I believe the idependece of public opinion, pressure groups and the media are far better tools.

  16. Part 2.

    What of representation and how we as Gibraltarians wish to be seen? To quote you...... "He mirrors to the outside world the morals and values that Gibraltar represents. These are, at least, honesty, trust, transparency, openness, security, safety, good governance and a good reputation as a place to visit and to do business in and from. The continued economic prosperity and success of Gibraltar are dependent on avoiding any circumstances that may undermine these." Robert I know I am opening myself up for an onslaught from you and many others in this blog, but if the past 15 years are anything to go by and we use your principles as a base line, we are in pretty good shape. You will argue on transparency and good governance which both relate to your quest of reforms, but apart from that and as I have said on many occasions before we are in exceptionally good shape.

    I think you play and read too much into the democratic deficit that you believe we are bereft of. I do not argue that you have a point but consider Gibraltar's political makeup and ambiente as check and balance extraordinaire. We are a unique and highly opinionated society of pansistas where our expectations usually lie way ahead of our realities and our realities usually lie way ahead of other most societies anywhere in the world.....and hey, don't get me wrong, I consider all of the above a good thing..:) We raise the bar - always! Where else in the world do you have new residents of a Govt rental housing estate trying and almost close to executing a transfer of key money to sell their rights to a spanking new address by the harbour? So don't be so sad Robert, your quest will serve its purpose (I am sure) and is proof of the fact that public opinion and democracy albeit in our own form is alive and kicking in Gib.

    The issue at large and what everyone is after without sometimes realizing the implications is the caldeo factor, la mierda so to speak, the bits that entertain us at coffee in Sacarellos or lunch at El Patio (for the lucky few...:), or dinner at home. We all like a bit of drama! Todays drama in politics is led by our political parties and you...:) and matter at hand is time - 16 fecking years - 16years which no one in there right minds can ignore or realistically refute as prosperous and successful, but nonetheless 16 years of the same leadership and an opposition with little to account for (in my view) in the form of an effective opposition (admitted to even by yourself Robert) hence the 16 years. Game on Robert....this is indeed democracy and in my view the hardest electoral decision yet.


  17. Its a sad day indeed when unions in Gibraltar don't celebrate worker's day.

    Over the last 16 years, the GSD has effectively brought about the dissolution of this institution. Some will be happy and consider this a good move, many others however, will feel this loss more deeply.

    Will this be one of the legacies of the GSD?

    Anna Conda

  18. That's the problem: there is no way the Chief Justice could have the time to regulate law firms so they in effect regulate themselves, which gives rise to situations such as Marrache. What we need is an independent Lawyers Regulatory Authority, exists in the UK. This was an IMF recommendation years ago and nothing was done. I wonder why?

  19. Spandau

    What comment in particular are you referring to? I am always happy to reconsider and indeed have done so already.

  20. Unions and representation of unions have never been stronger than they are today. The relationship between Govt and union us not something to be ashamed of but rather another example of why this GSD Govt actually works for the better common good as opposed to other Govts who have chosen to use unions to devide and conquer.
    Please do not attach the lack of union worker support for what the 1st May represents to the GSD Govt, it smells of dirty politics.

  21. I agree the union leadership have never been stronger because they have sold they soles to the GSD as a party and Govt. The problem is that you are deluded to think that it is better for the workers. It might be better for the leadership but not for the workers that the leadership should be representing. It is a betray to all workers and to what the 1st May represent. This has been a sad 1st of May and the union not celebrating this day is an indictment of the leadership.


  23. Anon14:50. Si vale picha, saca el violin anda, que los trabajadores estan sufriendo y el Govierno se esta cachondeando de ustedes. But hey not to worry guys the GSLP commits to resurrecting the dying corrupt union that we have today - oh thank god for that cause we all know how responsible the GSLP were with unions when in Govt. Now with Fabian it's gonna be even better.

  24. A little birdie tells them that the majority of the attendees at one of the latest GSD party gatherings were non locals. Whether this is fact or not though I cannot confirm but it would not in the least surprise me.

    The 6 month eligibility rule highlighted in this same blog is indeed something that in my opinion Mr. Feetham (Minister for Justice) should have found the time to look at. Maybe he was too busy making buggery legal? Not that I disagree with such a notion not at all. Merely perplexed by the manner in which he seems to have crusaded for one issue yet neglected such an important another.

    Gibraltar’s success and prosperity is attracting people from diverse parts of the world. This has given way to a steady and continuous flow of immigrants who are then provided with the means to vote shortly after their initial arrival. I think such legislation (implemented by the AACR) is a direct threat to our existence as a people and should be dissolved or altered at once.

    Before I get branded as a Nazi please note that what I oppose is mass immigration and not immigration as such.

    On a final note why is it that the GSD Government after 16 years in power has never seen fit to push for a change in this aforementioned legislation? One does wonder....

    As for the Unions, weren’t these the same unions that in conjunction with the Government attempted to get the Civil servants to agree to a deal that the MAJORITY of them did not want to? Was not Mr. Nettos’ arm of the union then subsequently dissolved in retaliation for him standing up for the MAJORITY of the civil servants? I’m I missing something here????


  25. K forget the Nazi's mate you should go work for scooby doo.

  26. anon @ 14:04, exactly which union is strong?

    Union officials and the Government might be as thick as thieves, but that doesn't mean they are working with the ordinary working man's interests at heart.

    Anna Conda

  27. Anonymous 1st May 21;21

    There has been a requirement for lawyer's client accounts to be audited by independent auditors since 2005, which is more than 5 years.

    Anonymous at 14:53

    I have not suggested that the ELECTION will be depersonalised. I have made a plea that comments on this blog should be.

  28. K was Elvis at the seminar too. On Michael Netto please tell me you haven't fallen for that one too. Get a grip man.

  29. Special K que tollo eres lechuga. Only British citizens can vote in Gibraltar and only after they have resided here for 6 months. No other immigrants as you call them have the right to vote. We have the same right in the UK but it is more lenient in our favour. Now by immigrants you may ACTUALLY mean British citizens and if you do, te se ve el plumero del GSLP harking back to the 5 th of July law. How can you people talk about the UK being our most important ally and your agenda is to discriminate against our fellow British citizens.

  30. An ex pat told me that there are too many lawyers in Gibraltar. He says that we have more than 200 but only need about 10. I agree. Get rid of the barristicrats and let them get proper jobs. We can get lawyers to come in on short contracts from UK. How many people do the lawyers employ any way.

  31. Robert i am generalising, no one in the topic you brought up "depersonalize to improve this blog ?" my opinion is it needs to depersonalize but the majority of comments in general are personalised views about individuals and their allegiance to whatever party,at times it borders character assassination.few comments read on the subject depersonalize but on other business, there is no need to personalize to prove a point specially in a small political arena which exist in gib, difficult to control though you seem to make an honest effort going by your comments on the subject.Your control of the blog will be measured by your political success,wish you well.

  32. anon @ 17:58

    GSD seminars are organised regularly. Different sectors of the community of all ages are invited to attend and they are given the opportunity to discuss with the CM any areas of concern on a wide range of issues. They are not necessarily members of the party.

    They are very popular, and no, Elvis has not been included in the guest list in the past, for obvious reasons.

  33. Ghost, I have been reading your latest 2 part blogs and it seems to me that you yourself appear to have your own doubts about what you are saying by the way you are anticipating other bloggers to come back to hound you down. You talk about ‘the maturity of our democracy’ and bang on about the fact that ‘man, we are in pretty good shape’. I am not convinced that either of these two statements are correct and it seems to me that there is an active campaign for this message to be repeated over and over again so that we are all eventually brain washed into believing it.

    To me a mature democracy does not hold secret meetings to decide the future planning of our city, make agreements with our neighbours without a mandate, refuse to disclose information that should rightfully be shared with the electorate [like the Haymills saga for example] and answer fully questions posed by the opposition in parliament. Nor am I convinced that we are in fact doing all that great, and I fear that this could be a repetition of what happened in Ireland not so long ago, and remember what they said about Ireland a few years before their economy went to the wall because they could not service their over investment and expenditure?? I subscribe to the opinion previously put out by Robert [and I hope I get this right as I do not want to misinterpret what he has said] that the economy has indeed been buoyant stirred by heavy investment in public capital projects [so certain individuals can become very rich, and perhaps eventually share part of this with their serfs], but the question is what income are these assets going to generate in time, and what liabilities are they going to impose on the tax payers going forwards. In other words how sustainable are they?? I also think that Gibraltar’s strong economic position initially came from not having any major financial deficit, like many of the other countries that went into this down turn with one, but we have of course played this card now by going over the half billion pound borrowing which may put us at risk in the future. I believe Gibraltar also benefited greatly from the MOD land transfers, which allowed development to prosper and generate financial rewards. Again this is a limited resource and once this cow has been slaughtered for its meat we can no longer milk it! So the question really is, have the decisions been made the best ones for Gibraltar, and given the lucky break we have had with the economy have the public been given good value for money?? Judging by the state of the schools, the appalling state of the upper town area, the state of our beaches, the lack of berthing facilities, the noise and pollution, the poorly planned over bearing effect of building development and traffic congestions etc. etc. I do not think we are in that great a shape, man. Let’s face it most well managed and prospering communities boast a decent library and a theatre, our library leaks water and is falling to the ground and we still do not have a theatre, despite the millions of pounds already spent. The last minute attempt to improve the state of the parks is welcomed, by why has a whole generation of children sadly missed out on this important part of their growing up?

    Robin hood

  34. Thank you Spandau. I misunderstood you. I do my best. i assure you that I edit out a lot more comments making allegations against individual GSD Ministers than I do about Fabian Picardo or anyone else. The implication of some commentators is that I am only protecting Fabian. This is far from the truth, I assure you and all readers.

  35. I say bring the legal profession into public ownership. Open a Legal Advice Center like in the UK and close all the law firms. That way we can get rid of this arrogant group of ponces in wigs and big clients accounts.

  36. Anonymous at 20:36

    That expat really does not know what he is talking about when he says 10 lawyers would be enough. That figure does not take into account the international facet of the work done by lawyers. 200 is too many, which is why some lawyers are unemployed and some do not do too much work. As to how many employees do they have? Well, as between all the larger firms 400 is conservative estimate.

  37. Ahu, Robin Hood, no vea lo ke a echo. Now they will do this en plan devuya, con lo companys trabajando a tos hora, de noche y de dia.

    Somebody warn a la del library, ke manana mismo esta JBS alli con special waterproof paint pa el techo del Mac Hall!


  38. Anon 20:05

    Your statements are incorrect, please try again......


  39. So Robert you agree with the ex-part about too many lawyers. Lawyers should be concentrating in probono work and not international facets.

  40. I agree that there is now an over supply of lawyers but that is the case in the UK also. It is a highly competitive profession requiring today the best qualifications from the best universities. Lawyers cannot concentrate on probono work alone because they too have to pay their way in life. What is wrong is the system of legal aid and assistance as it does not provide adequate recourse for the needy. I believe that all lawyers should do some probono work. I do some for sure. I am not sure that all lawyers do the same.

  41. to those that say that the unions are as strong as they have ever being , which planet or what drugs are you on? i want some .

  42. Anon 20:05


    To register as an elector, a person must :-

    (i) Be 18 years of age or over on 10th March 2011 or be 18 years old between 11th March 2011 and 10th March 2015; and

    (ii) Be either:

    (a) a British citizen; or

    (b) a British Overseas Territories citizen; or

    (c) a British National ( Overseas); or

    (d) a British protected person; or

    (f) a British subject under the British Nationality Act 1981;

    (iii) Have lived in Gibraltar for a continuous period of six months ending on 10th March 2011; and

    (iv) Intend to live in Gibraltar either permanently or indefinitely

    Furthermore please note that even though I am proud to be British I consider myself first and foremost to be Gibraltarian. I DO NOT believe a UK national should have the right to vote in Gibraltar after only 6 months residency. Especially when one considers that the UK has been giving out nationality “statuses” as if they were skittles in the past.

    The points that we need to look at here are the last 4, (d,f,iii, and iv), please tell me what you derive from such statements?


  43. Mr K you really do speak with a forked tongue. You said that immigrants had the right to vote here and that we were becoming foreigners in our own land. British citzens are not foreigners. We have stood by you through thick and thin and you should not now try to deprive us of our democratic right to vote. Yes I came here some years ago and I am shocked at the militant anti-British feeling you represent. It is obvious from your posts and others supportive of the opposition that that is he line you are concertedly trying to promote.

  44. Special K are you saying that British citizens in the Indian community should not have the right to vote or is it just those who come from the UK you obkect to. Is that GSLP policy?

  45. Anon 23:40

    It seems that staying true to GSD sycophant form you have neglected to once again answer my queries, but rather opted to launch a personal attack instead. Additionally you have than seen fit to imply that my thoughts mimic those of the opposition (nice try). To the best of my recollection the new GSLP/Lib’s collation under Picardo have never stated such a thing.

    Please note that these are MY thoughts and my thoughts only, I am not affiliated to any political party as such.

    Why not answer my questions, instead of insulting me instead? It’s called debate. I express my views then you express yours.....

    I guess in your side of the “fence” things don’t work like that huh?

    Furthermore how can a person know what is best for a nation after only 6 months of residency? Do you deem this possible? Because are sure don't.

    For the sake of proper debate please feel free to back your future comments up with substance or at least with something that resembles a valid argument.

    Ps- If you have resided here for a number of years now then YES I would deem you eligible to vote, but not after 6 months sorry :)


  46. Anon 23:54

    Por el amor de dios!! NO I am not saying that.

    What I AM stating is that I believe non locals who have only resided here for 6 months should NOT be allowed to vote. In my opinion 5 years (maybe 8?) should be the minimum.

    Why? Well because this would be enough time to allow for any one person to live through the best part of one term of Government and would then subsequently enable them to pass fair judgment.


  47. Venga ya Kaelan don't try and distance the opposition from your views when you know differently. And it is not only you but the other GSLP supporters that express the same view. The same GSLP supporters that were going round the hospital last election saying they would sack expats when they got to Government. And please stop trying to persuade us you are not a GSLP (whats the word you constantly us) sicophant.

  48. The 6 month rule is a travesty and steps should be taken to amend it accordingly.

    It’s not a case of foreigners or Cat 2 individuals not being welcome in Gibraltar, You’d be hard-pressed to find a more racially tolerant society than our own. However, it is just ridiculous that any person should have ANY say in respect of Gibraltar’s future if they’ve only spent 6 months here.

    In my opinion the minimum limit should be set at 4 years. But I’m sure there’s valid arguments for a figure closer to 3 or perhaps even 2, but 6 months is certainly too short a period of time.

    It seems those arguing with K are being needlessly pedantic; he’s on the money with this one.

  49. a british protected person can vote in Gibraltar elections after 6 months residency in Gibraltar, and yet if s/he were a UK resident they wouldn't be able to vote at all in a UK general election, however long they are resident there.

  50. I am an ex pat and I find your statement that the legal profession in Gibraltar is a highly competitive profession requiring today the best qualifications from the best universities distastefully elitist. What is the proportion of women within the profession here? In the UK it is 50/50 here it is more like I in 10. Most if not all QCs have gone to public schools. How many Lesbian Gay Bisexual and transgender lawyers do we have? How many West Indian or muslim lawyers? None! The legal profession here needs to be brought into the 21st century.

  51. Ghost says:
    Robin Hood, if you consider Gib not to be a mature democracy, not to be economically prosperous, and stuck with a Govt doing deals behind your back, clearly you see nothing positive about the last 15 years and would advise that you vote for a GSLP Govt in the next election.
    I am sorry that you disagree with my views and can only say that our perspectives are quite apart.

  52. Anon 08:08, you're talking nonsense.

    Perhaps you should do a little more asking around before making such sweeping generalisations.

  53. Expat at 0808

    Gay and lesbian lawyers quite a few. Transgender none but then again there aren't that many transgender persons within our small community. lawyers of Indian / Hindu origin, a few, and Muslim none that I know, but then again you have to consider that most Gibraltarians of Morrocan origin / parents are First generation in gibraltar. There are quite a few of Moroccan origin first gen Gibraltarians already at Uni furthering their studies in a number of subjects, so there might be a lawyer in there.

    Apply your statement to medicine for example and there are quite a few from every category.

    you cannot criticise the legal profession for not having these in Gibraltar. IOf there aren't it will be cos the case hasn't arisen - it defintiely won't be as a result of racial intolerance of favouritism.

    If there aren't any lawyers who fit the category within our community, we are not going to apply the "Extreme PC" attitude of the Motherland and import them just to fulfill a PC quota or have a token representitive.

    On Ks point I too agree that six months is too short a period of time for persons to become eligable. Its actually quite scandalous and I doubt that is the case in any other Western nation! That should be reviewed and a minimum of a few years applied. A person who has just been here six months cannot, no matter how well intentioned, hae the necessary insight, or understanding of the complex nature of our community, to be able to steer us in the right direction. We are not a Company or Coperation, we are a nation, a territory and we are talking about people not products. A person who has a deep understanding of the community (ie a local or someone who has been here long enough) are the only ones who can apply this. I cannot see the electorate ever voting for someone with 6 months residency to lead our Gibraltar.

  54. ROBERT:i consider you go about your work (LLW) within the blog quite balanced.Its common sense that the ruling party whoever will receive the majority of knocks the same as when they do a good job they should receive a pat on the back a few only not to many "they get big headed".reference fabian up to this moment in time your position is acceptable. from my point of view he can't be slaughtered just now, he has only been in the job a couple of days and as politician a few years. with time he will also be subject to be heavily critised (not character assassinated)as happens in gib politics.i must remind you that this media is the only media were you are on the same par with the rest of politicians.the outcome will be seen by your results at the end of the day.

  55. Expat at 8:08

    I have never used this language on this blog but it is the only way to reply to you. You are talking uninformed crap!

    Elitist, try and get a place in chambers as a barrister in London or elsewhere in the UK. Elitist, try and get a training contract as a solicitor in London or anywhere in the UK. I know my son tried and succeeded after 18 months to get a training contract as a solicitor and you know what, he has a degree fro OXFORD university. So without respect crap.

    As to gay lawyers in Gibraltar, I am proud to count several as my friends, so crap.

    I believe we do not have many or any transgender individuals in Gibraltar, so crap.

    I do not know what the percentage of women is but in my own firm alone there are 3, an I believe all female lawyers who wish to work are all in work as lawyers in Gibraltar, so crap again.

    Hindu lawyers there are several, one of whom is a QC and Speaker of our Parliament, so crap once again.

    I am sure a high proportion of QC's have not gone to public school. Of those in active practice I know of 6 out of 8 who have not, so crap again and again.

    So all that you have proved is that you are an uninformed expat who needs to actually not open his mouth until he has done a little more research.

  56. Who may this EXPAT be? Is he/she for real? And to think if he/she has been living in Gibraltar for over 6months he/she has a right to vote & determine the direction our future takes!! Que miedo!

    Paca Garse

  57. Expats comments just serve to highlight the dangers of permitting residents with just 6 months residency on our Homeland to stand for election!!!!!!! Whoever gets into Govt MUST PROMISE TO AMEND THAT IMMEDIATELY - IT MUST BE THE FIRST THING THEY ACTUALLY DO WHILST IN OFFICE IMO!!!!

    I expect Expat will now jump on us all and accuse us of amny things in accordance with his Politically Correct Extremism! When in Rome, do like the Romans! Y al ke no le guste...tiene varios flights al dia de vuelta a la Madre Patria!

    Gibraltar welcomes Everyone, but FIRST and FOREMOST it is the land of the Gibraltarians and we should be the Masters and Architects of our own dstiny. Help is welcome, but we best know ourselves so we wioll take the lead!

  58. There is a lot of misinformation about the right to vote in other countries on this blog. In the UK all residents of the UK with EU nationality or nationality in listed commonwealth countries have the right to vote.

    There is no time limit. In other words a student from Gib goes to the UK to study and can vote.

    GSLP supporters on this blog are asking us to disenfranchise British citizens.

  59. Anonymous at 23:23

    You are right, even as long ago as in 1970 when I was at university I was enfranchised in the UK and could vote.

  60. El commentario del supposed ex pat se lo avei inventao ustedes to stir up miedo and xenophobia against British nationals who come here and contribute to the economy and rightly have the right to participate in the democratic process as we have in the uk. In your desire to win at all costs or find excuses if you lose the next election you are targeting a group of people who have always been supportive of our rights even in the face of sell outs by their government. Shame on you.

  61. Not you. All those with an xenophobic agenda on the blog with comments about miedo that British nationals have the right to vote after being resident here for six months. This is a typical GSLP line, where they have always maintained that they lose elections because of it, or gibraltarians don't get jobs because of it etc etc. It's an unhelpful nonsense that generates hatred and alienates people who are and need to be our allies in future because things may get worse before they get better as far as Spain is concerned.

  62. Anon 23:23

    The GSLP supporters have stated no such thing and neither have I, you have clearly taken things out of context.

    Might you be the GSD's SPIN MASTER?

    Common sense will tell you that 6 months is just not long enough for obvious reasons.

    PLEASE STOP SCAREMONGERING it looks desperate.


  63. Ghost,

    Clearly there are some things that are indeed positive from the last 15 years, but I would expect any form of government to get at least some basic things right. The question is, are they good enough? and I for one am not convinced that things could not have been done much, much better. The result of 15 years in power are nowhere near my own expectations, and sadly it seems that things can only get worse from this point on. Why? Because the current administration has set itself a path from which it is now going to be very difficult to come back from. Having said that if anybody can convince the people of Gibraltar that it is time to change and go against what he has previously said and done it is Peter Caruana, because no doubt he is a strong and natural leader and can make people do what they would not normally do for themselves. Most people who once supported labour in the UK, realized that Britain had no choice but to change its government if it had any chance of coming out of this economic crises. There was no way that Gordon Brown could possibly do a 'u' turn on his policies that was bankrupting the country and retain support as leader. It was therefore necessary to change completely and take the country in a different direction. The answer is that I am not sure who I am going to vote for yet and I am not necessarily advocating a vote for the GSLP. I am still a floating voter but at the moment the GSD is not my hot favorite!

    Robin Hood.

  64. sorry Robin Hood but the GSD have always adopted an 'if you're not with us, you're against us' attitude with anybody who dares disagree, so obviously, if you dare to criticise this government, you must be a GSLP brother!

    tonight, for example, the mad expat who complains of the legal profession has to be a GSLP activist in disguise, and everybody agreeing that 6 months residence is too short a period to bestow the right to vote to any new arrival to our shores, must be, a) xenophobic, and b) yes you guessed it, a GSLP activist too.

    I too am neither GSLP nor PDP, but can't bring myself to give the GSD my vote in this coming election, especially, when I read posts by the like of Pedro & co.

    I believe we have had enough patronising and colonial attitudes from the MOD personnel here in the past to now, in the 21st century, have to put up with more of the same from our own self-imposed elite and their expat friends who are only interested in financial gains from Gibraltar and care little for the Gibraltarian and all we stand for.

  65. Kaelan the problem with you is you need to think before you hit the key board. That way you avoid all those emails from the GSLP top brass telling you to be careful lest you alienate the expat vote.

  66. 23:23, I'm not a GSLP supporter. I maintain that it is wrong that any British person should have the right to vote within 6 months of being here. I acknowledge that this isn't the case in the UK as you have rightly pointed out, but it is my opinion that a person's vote carries more proportional weight here than it does in the UK simply because Gibraltar is a smaller community.
    As someone else has already pointed out I believe that a person should have the opporunity to make an informed decision about who they believe should best lead Gibraltar moving forwards and I feel they would only be able to gauge the progress of the government of the day if they were to live in Gibraltar for at least half an electoral term in my opinion. If they then want to vote PDP/GSD/GSLP/individual candidates, that's their perogative. But why should the lives of those who are a solid and long-standing part of our community be influenced by those expats (obviously not all of them) who may only have a periphery interest in Gibraltar's wellbeing?

  67. I am the ex pat who wrote yesterday morning and am delighted that my views on your legal profession with which I have had some dealings have got some of you thinking. No one has yet been able to explain the antiquated snobbery and elitism of your legal profession.You accept that the proportion of women in the law is too small compared to the UK's of 50/50. No figures for lesbian, gay or bisexual lawyers. No transgender lawyers. No Afro-carribean or muslim lawyers? I came to Gibraltar much more than 6 months ago, so if I can I will vote to get rid of your smarmy government. I work in a top estate agency where I manage a team which includes some Gibraltarians whom we hope to train to UK standards so that maybe one day they will be fit for managament. I have found our Gibraltarian staff cheerful and eager to learn but the standards of other estate agents falls below that which I am accustomed to in the UK when it comes to customer care and good practice. It seems to me that the Gibrlatrian estate agency profession has the same shortcomings as your legal profession and is mired in the 1950s. At the next election I wil be voting for Fabian Picardo whom I have had the pleasure of meeting. He is UK trained and a well turned out and professional looking young man who would grace any sales team. He will make a good job of marketing Gibraltar PLC in today's world.

  68. Anon 00:33

    hahahaha ahu chiquillo.

    What part of not after 6 months but YES if they have been here longer don't you get?

    It seems like the lights are on, but there is nobody home. Wakey wakey!

    Ps - loving the conspiracy theories LOL


  69. You gotta love the Expat and his comments at 0807 He doesn't even try to hide his disdain for the Gibraltarians and the fact he thinks we are "second class", "lesser beings" or similar. He accusses us of being xenophobic / classist or whatever (Er HALLO!!! we don't have many Afro Carribean citizens in our community!! This is Gibraltar not england!!!!) and in the same line he demonstrates this trait himself by speaking against us Gibraltarians.

    Don't know if LLW will publish this, but we definitely don't need "expats" like these in our community. Please do us all a favour and check out flight departures to the UK soonest pichita!

  70. Chicillo no entera que el expat es un rollo by GSLP fanatics on the blog.

  71. Expat 08:07, you must be a REAL piece of work.

    I cannot believe you have had the audacity to state the following:

    "I work in a top estate agency where I manage a team which includes some Gibraltarians whom we hope to train to UK standards so that maybe one day they will be fit for management"


    You got to love these people, they think themselves superior to the rest of us.

    Vote for Picardo?? Your comments sound very GSD like. Just a thought, just a humble thought......


  72. Well, I don't know if LLW will publish this, but I don't think "ex-pat" at 0807 exists. But i take my hat off to whoever sent his emails! Good one.

  73. Many of you have misinterpreted my words. I realise that most of you are bi-lingual and may therefore not be fully conversant with the English language. I have found this professionally among several of the lawyers, accountants, bar staff and estate agents that I have met. On the other hand, as I have endeavoured to explain I have had no problems of communicating with British trained Gibraltarians like Mr. Picardo. I have made Gibraltar my home and this is where I work and the last thing on my mind is to cause offence.
    I come from the United Kingdom where we have learnt to celebrate diversity. I honestly believe that the Gibraltar community will benefit from multiculturalism. It is a matter of regret that your muslim community is not fully integrated and that there are so few Afro Carribean citizens in our community here. I strongly believe in equality and feel that LGBT individuals, members of minority religions and none and Afro Caribeans should be in more important positions in the professions, the judicial department, politics, the civil service and business generally. If Gibraltar wishes to remain British then you must behave in British ways. Finally I do not intend to leave Gibraltar as rudely suggested above. I think that you all have a great deal to learn from people such as myself and should be grateful that so many of us are here despite your manners, your stange gibberish and the lack of proper restaurants and culture(again something that could improve with more diversity). From now on I will sign "True Brit".

  74. Robert,

    First time poster here. My apologies for the long but necessary post. I think it needs to be split into two.

    To the Expat:

    I take it you are a British Expat from the UK living in British Gibraltar.

    For someone who accuses as Gibraltarians of “antiquated snobbery”, do you realise that you yourself are coming across as a snob with the remarks and comments you are making. You state you live in Gibraltar and have done so for over six months, but you clearly y have no idea where you live, what we are all about and you are greatly misinformed and clueless on most which you make reference to.

    Firstly, have you looked around Gibraltar? Do you know who makes up our community? Gibraltar is made up of a multitude of different cultures, us Gibraltarians being the end result of the fusion of multiple Mediterranean, African and Anglo cultures in the main. Our Moroccan community came to Gibraltar in the 70s as workers to help Gibraltar during the years of the frontier closure. Many younger Gibraltarians of Moroccan parentage / descent are first generation, and like other Gibraltarians who have been here for more than one generation, have access to our schools and further education. Many are now qualified or in the process of becoming qualified in a number of professions, so with most being first gen, you8 will soon see many more occupying prominent positions within the community, just like anyone else.

    Gay and lesbian lawyers there are quite a few. Transgender, I cannot think of any, but then again, we are a population of 30,000 approx. and I think there is no transgender person in Gibraltar. There are however a couple of cross dressers and they live and work in our community as cross dressers without a problem. Gibraltar is small, so most Gibraltarians will know this is true and will even know them by name and where they work, and be connected to them in some form or another via the “six degrees” factor which in Gibraltar is likely to be less than “six”. Regarding Afro-Carribean persons, there are none that I can think of. If there are any in Gibraltar they will not be local born since Afro Carribeans have never settled here like they did on the UK mainland. If any are residing in Gibraltar they will have probably moved over due to work – so they are probably already working within their field of choice and have most probably been transferred here, as happens with many ethnicites / nationalities not commonly resident in Gibraltar but which have moved over as a result of opportunities in the Gaming industry. I am sure that if an Afro Caribbean person wishes to become a lawyer in Gibraltar, if they are suitably qualified, they will find a job.

    Women lawyers I know many. Many of them are actually quite prominent and important within the legal profession.

  75. Part II

    You talk about “UK standards” perhaps being unaware that in Gibraltar most people are “up to UK standards”. Our education system is the same as that in the UK, and furthermore, the success rate of local students sitting the same exams as our British cousins on the Mainland, is higher. Further studies / University sees Gibraltarians going across to the UK mainland attending the same universities and sitting the same exams and achieving the same degrees so I do not understand what you mean when you imply that we Gibraltarians are not up to UK standard.

    Furthermore, and on the subject of “UK standards” I can assure you that most professions in Gibraltar are linked and affiliated to British (ie UK Mainland) Associations, Groups etc that monitor and regulate standards within their professions. Most also undertake further on the job training and these are always UK courses with UK standards and UK exams. When necessary, employers will also “fly” Gibraltarians to the UK Mainland to attend the relevant courses / training needed for further development on the job.

    You also mention that we don’t keep stats in terms of ethnic / sexuality / gender breakdown within professions. Is this really necessary??? Gibraltar is a tolerant society and we have never had any major episodes of racial tension. Here in Gibraltar we are who we are, not what we are, and that has worked fine for us for over three hundred years. It seems you want Gibraltar to go PC-extreme like the UK has, despite the UK being in a right mess by being PC-extreme now, and the majority of the British public backing this argument. Over here in Gibraltar we don’t employ “tokens”, we employ people who are qualified and best suited for the job – regardless of their sexuality, gender or ethnicity.

  76. Part III

    I could go on and on, but quite frankly I have already dedicated more time than I should to you. Your comment “I manage a team which includes some Gibraltarians whom we hope to train to UK standards so that maybe one day they will be fit for management” says it all. You have come to Gibraltar with a superiority complex and despite now being part of our community, you are insulting towards us! Your “local” employees must really love you!

    Furthermore, your comment, “I came to Gibraltar much more than 6 months ago, so if I can I will vote to get rid of YOUR smarmy government” again just exposes you. The use of “Your” suggests you have come over to Gib with this mentality of “Us and Them” and you have no genuine concerns for the community which you now form part of.

    My suggestion, if we are inferior to you, and you feel uncomfortable here in OUR Gibraltar (using your Us and them thing), why not take a flight back home???? You are in Gibraltar now, and you form part of the community. The least you could do is show respect for the community you have come into, and perhaps take the time to find out a little bit more about Gibraltar and the Gibraltarians before making a fool out of yourself by making uninformed and brutish comments.

    Personally I dislike you so much, based on the comments you make, that I will take full advantage of the small size and “uniqueness” of Gibraltar to find out who you are. Having described what field you work in, it comes down to TWO estate agents. Personally I will go out of my way to inform my other “inferior” fellow Gibraltarians of the “Attitude” and “disdain” you show towards us in an attempt to boycott your business! Remember you have publicly “insulted” 24,000 (approx) native born Gibraltarians. Not knowing much about us, you probably won’t know that we are a tight knit community where family ties reach far and wide, and it is part of our Mediterranean / Latin temperament to group up against anyone wanting to “harm” US (using your “Us and Them”).

    I wish you a happy stay in Our Gibraltar!

    On another note, following the alarming remarks made by this Expat, I ask – RV-LLW, woudl amending the “Six month Residency” thing be something you would look at if elected???? Similarly, are other parties willing to amend this????

    RV - Thank you for allowing me the space on your blog!

  77. As we would say here in Gibraltar, "Al expat este le han meao en el coco" no???

  78. is anybody realy surprised by True Brit's' comments? I'm not!
    The British didn't invade Gibraltar in 1704 for our benefit but for their own personal gain, and they have held on to it since then, for the same reasons.
    Now we have become a problem, como un juanete, ke aunque duele y da la lata todo el dia, no te lo puede quita, unless you have an operation, y pa eso hay waiting list en el GHA!
    Having said all that, I think that True Brit es alguien de cachondeo, and I suspect ke es alguien del GSD mas ke del GSLP, pero como todo el mundo aqui esta en plan 'pin-pon-pelea-pon', you all miss the wood for the trees!
    Come on people, un poquito ma de madure y animo de agree to differ pero con proper debate pa el bien de nuestro Gibraltar y vamo a dejarnos de shalaura ya, ke esto es ma importante ke to esta cavronadas!


  79. If Expat / True Brit is indeed a wind up, the person behind it should feel embarassed and ashamed. If it is a wind up they are probably a political party activist and it only serves to highlight the dangers of extremism when they become "activists". Party leaders should feel ashamed if indeed one of their activists has resorted to this.

    I am not affiliated to any party, but have already taken a decision on whom I will not be voting in, purely based on my many years experience as a Gibraltarian. I have yet to determine whom I will vote but will vote for the one best representing my interests at a personal and community level.

    I find it alarming that an activist from whatever party resort to tactics such as these, even if just meant in jest!

  80. I couldn't agree more with Kaelan Joyce,6 MONTHS just a joke.c'mon if we don't wake up soon we shall all end up playing golf up the costa.

  81. spandau, I agree, but only on the part referring to us all ending on the Costa (or even closer to home at that - the Campo de Gibraltar) as residents because we won't be able to afford to live on our homeland, much less to sign up to play golf!

  82. ANON 22.38,though i agree with your comment which could very well happen,if we don't control or eradicate this 6 months law sooner rather than later.if we won't be able to afford golf which we won't be able to, we shall end up like the "yes buana days" carrying golf club bags and the "gangadin" of the old boys club,hence i agree with Kaelan Joyce. i would not like to be controlled on who will govern me.definetly not by golfers and the morrison's expat shopping boy's club from up the costa with dodgy gib address.

  83. Most people don't even know about this.

    Awareness is the key guys!

    Let us RAISE IT!!!



  84. I reiterate again you GSLP supporters/sympathisers are making a big mistake turning your guns against British expats. It is wrong as a matter of principle and will damage Gibraltar.

  85. true brits comments are typical colonial masters style . wake up mate this is the 21 century not victorian times . yep uk standards dont make me laugh . the british where very good at everything 100 to 200 years ago but they have lost everything . they were even good at football , cricket or rugby . even engineering . look where you are now . its laughable

  86. is anon 22:25 special K? or is it an aspiring corn flake? i think the maybe the former...

  87. Charles Gomez5 May 2011 at 09:19

    I am in doubt as to whether "True Brit" is "for real" or part of a attempt to create an election issue by our unimaginative and generally lazy political elite. Whichever way, TB is an outrageous caricature of modern day Britain - a post Blairite politically correct obsessive in the lower rungs of the service economy. Still since he feloniously appropriates to himself the term "ex pat" he might wish to know of a few Gibraltarian "ex pats" (a wimpish expression if ever there was one)that Gibraltar has given to the world - archbishops (Amigo & Bowen), Nuclear scientists (Penney & Desoisa), spy masters (Gomez Beare), generals (Shepherd) more recently highly decorated senior officers in the war on terror (Cols Risso MC & Perez), international lawyers (Porro), chart topping musicians (Hammond, Fero, Melon Deisel & Taxi; Imperio Argentina), the Painter Gustavo Bacarisas, Edward Stevenson one the founder of Mormonism, significant names in the medical profession such as Bosio, Ruiz, Galliano & Yeo), international businesmen such as James Gaggero, the fashion designer (now sadly in disgrace John Galliano), and last by no means least Miss World 2009 Kiane Aldorino. These is just a short list of prominent Gibraltarians who have made their mark abroad which I can think of at short notice and I am sure that other Llanito worlders can come up with many more names. We also have excellent home grown estate agents.

  88. This debate has gone from "Depersonalise political comment" to the "Ex-pat/Belonger" issue. Perhaps we can depersonalise that debate too. The choice to a certain extent is to decide between the American/French attitude obliging immigrants to "Integrate" and the British attitude which until recently celebrated its concept of a multi-cultural society.

  89. I suggest that terminology is important in the debate on belongers because it depersonalises, and would therefore ask others to be accurate. The name of our nationality is not "British Nationals" but "British Citizens", and is shared with most people who are British and live in the UK, it is therefore not a differentiation to call recent settlers "Brits" or such-like.

    "Gibraltarians" (which includes many people who do not live here) and "non-Gibraltarian residents" would be a legally accurate description of each of these categories.

  90. I realise that by posting this I`m opening myself up to a possible barrage of wotnots coming my way but whilst I don`t like the tone of TB`s posts I do have to agree with his comments on customer care and service - it is sometimes quite frankly apalling ( I recently encountered a nail picking civil servant who only occasionally glanced up at me whilst I was trying to point out something on a form at a public counter) and instead of going on the attack as a method of defense we might do well to recognise that much as we love our Gibraltar there is always room for improvement.

  91. Anon 00:33 aka GSD Sycophant

    Que pesaito estas con el scaremongering.

    I doubt the expat is REALLY an expat.

    I know many expats and their families and they would never say such things. Actually I work with one! He sits right beside. Most of them love Gibraltar, our people and our ways.

    Unfortunately they do think as highly of the UK (the motherland), where they state and I am quoting here “they are now the minority”. I cannot help but sympathize with such thoughts as the last time I went to London I saw very few actual English people.


  92. Corn flakes the only one scaremongering is you trying to scaremonger Gibraltarians into the belief that our fellow Brits should be disenfranchised because otherwise we will lose our national identity. Yes I support the GSD and I am proud to say they do not have such an agenda. You on the other hand support a party that does but does not have the courage to say so. Hence the need to send you and others like you to scaremonger on this site.

  93. Sorry guys pero like him or not no hay nadie como Caruana. Watching him on GBC (interview in Barca) now and he is on a different level.
    With respect Picardo is neither prepared for the strength of leadership nor the diplomatic skills required to be a leader of Gibraltar. Worse still is the prospect of Bossano and Perez steering from behind.
    Just my humble opinion.

  94. El tio eh un bicho!!! An awesome defence of Gibraltar and los Llanitos. Well done Peter Caruana!

  95. It is frightening to think that the likes of Bossano and Perez are between them still so influential in the politics of today and even worse to have Picardo as the proposed next CM of Gibraltar in charge of our affairs who has done nothing to show his leadership credentials other than to wait to be told that the path has been cleared.
    After seeing the CM on tv tonight it scares me to think that in a few months time the likes if Bossano Perez and Picardo could be in that seat.
    The political play that Perez plays on behalf of the GSLP via the New People is outrageous and a warning that the GSLP is under the same leadership as always.

  96. L.E.F. say,

    We Llanitos have our own unique identity as a people precisely because we are a mixture of races and cultures.

    This is what is special about us Gibraltarians
    The ability of our forefathers (Genoese, Maltese ,British, Irish, Spanish, Jews, Muslims,Hindu,etc) to have fostered a sense of belonging together as one to make us what we are today.

    This is what we must remember, we are LLANITOS first and last. We are not GSD nor GSLP. Lets stop the party politics. Lets concentrate on the issues not on the parties bickering.

    Now with all these naval incursions and our sovereignty being put to the test , we have to unite as one and not be divided .

    I welcome whoever wants to settle in Gibraltar if they truly want to make Gibraltar their home
    and they feel Gibraltarian. This is what our forefathers did.

    I however consider 6 months residence too short to qualify to vote locally. I would suggest a minimum of 4 years to protect our identity.

    It does not worry me so much for an election as it does for any future referendum .

    Vote Change, Vote Mr Vasquez and use your 9 other votes wisely

  97. I suppose he has to go out of his way to cover up his Andorra comments in Seville, both to the Gibraltarians, & to the Spanish, but which ideology are we to believe, what he's spinning tonight or what he let slip in Seville?

  98. Anon 17:37

    I have done no such thing merely stated that I do not think that non locals should be allowed to vote after only 6 months of residency.

    Que P*LLA eres.

    You seem to be a typical GSD sycophant, unable to accept anything other than your own elevated opinions.

    The people of Gibraltar should decide the future of Gibraltar digas lo que digas.

    K aka cornflakes :)

  99. El Pro Brit Polla6 May 2011 at 00:49

    LEF the six month rule was not applied to the two referenda we have had. From memory the minimum qualification was 10 years.

  100. Anon 00:49

    Ensima de p*lla ere mentiroso.

    Your lies will not sway the electors, at least not whilst I have anything to do with it.


  101. Musho habla de pollas aqui. Que passsa? Aqui mamoneando de los guiris como si lo ex patatas de la costa del sol iban a veni de sus holiday homes a Giberta pa compra en Queensway Key y Ochon Billage solo pa vota por Picardo y esha a Carrruana. Que estai shalaou? Cambia el disco!!!

  102. For the attention of the Ex Pat.

    You do realise Fabian Picardo is a lawyer and is UK trained LIKE EVERY GIBRALTARIAN LAWYER!

    Having met him, you may have also realised that snobbery and elitism plays a prominent role in his character and I am sure it does with many other lawyers in Gibraltar, the UK and the rest of the world! It is an unfortunate trait of the profession which will, hopefully, soon be weeded out.

    To the ridiculous suggestions of women in the legal profession. All students have the opportunity to study law, return and work in Gibraltar so long as they achieve the adequate grades to sit their exams and can secure a position in Chambers. Neither men nor women face and other barriers and to allude to such a thing is tantamount to a defamatory statement for which you should rightly be taken to court for. No doubt on such an occasion you would happily open your wallet to a member of, as you put it, the antiquated, snobbish elite profession to dig you out of your hole.

    For a person who speaks about Gibraltar with such disdain and has a clear superiority complex it is a tribute to the freedom of speech that such vile contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated you douchebag!