Saturday, 14 May 2011

Picardo's GSLP … a New Dawn in Gibraltar Politics?

It seems that there is some glitter of hope in Gibraltar politics that may result in less confrontational politics in Gibraltar. We have seen recently the GSLP extending invitations to the GSD that the parties should work together on issues of national interest.  The GSLP has congratulated the Chief Minister on his appointment as an Overseas Bencher of the Inner Temple; I also join in those congratulations. The GSD has invited the GSLP to participate jointly in parliamentary reform.

I hope that these signs truly reflect a new dawning for politics in Gibraltar. I hope that it not just a ploy to sow dissent amongst those in the GSLP who agree with electoral and parliamentary reform and those who may not. I hope that something positive and constructive will come from these developments. I hope that electoral and parliamentary reform does become a reality. I hope that, because it is such an important issue, that it does not get mired in party political dissent causing the new impetus to hit a dead end. 

The PDP reaction is not helpful. It militates at making the issue party political, precisely because of the views it has expressed, which will tend to polarise the issue at a party political level. The PDP are not represented in Parliament. They have to accept this distinction in status from the other three parties. This will not prevent the PDP from having an input through representations and lobbying. The PDP’s input cannot be at parliamentary committee level, put simply, the PDP has not been elected into Parliament. 

I would like to make a positive gesture following these developments. A few commentators have credited this blog with having agitated the issue of electoral and parliamentary reform in manner that has led to recent developments. I thank them for expressing that view but the reality is that the most that this blog has done is to bring the issue to the forefront of the minds of the mainstream parties. Others have also had similar views and policies.

The truth is that the GSD promised reforms in its manifesto. The Chief Minister subsequently confirmed his desire to give effect to reforms. He then put the issue on the back burner using the excuse that the GSLP did not support reforms. I do not agree with this reasoning and have so said in the past. The GSD could have pushed for reforms by publishing its policy on the subject and then criticized the GSLP had it vetoed the ability of Parliament to pass them or an adaptation into law. The GSD has now reacted to the change of opinion by the GSLP expressed by Fabian Picardo to the effect that it would support reforms. The Chief Minister has given a new impetus to the process by inviting a cross-party approach, which would now be difficult for the GSLP to turn down.

Electoral and parliamentary reforms are the main focus of my politics, which are contained in the "Core Principles" that I published. On the basis of giving both the GSD and the GSLP the benefit of the doubt that they will together enact reforms to promote democracy, I have taken the decision not to stand for election. I will continue writing this blog. My decision not to stand for election is also predicated following careful thought over the period of the recent holidays. The reality is that, although I have many offers of active help and support, these do not translate into persons willing to stand for election. Each has his or her reasons for not putting their head above the parapet. I understand fully their reasoning. It is not an easy thing to do. Often business, employment or family considerations militate against standing for election. Consequently, I would need to stand-alone. 

The chance of election standing alone, as an independent, is very limited. Additionally, as has been pointed out by some commentators, there is a school of thought that my standing for election detracts from my ability to be considered "independent" when writing this blog. It is clear that being seen to be writing "independently" provides a useful forum and catalyst for change. I believe that the move toward parliamentary reform, in part, has been stimulated by this blog and my publication of the "Core Principles". I want to give our mainstream politicians a chance to deliver the reforms, which are needed and so clearly wanted by the electorate. 

My ability to promote change alone, even if elected into Parliament as an independent, will be no greater than my ability to agitate for that change by writing this blog. I have decided that I wish to retain the strength and credibility of this blog by not standing for election whilst I have such limited chances of either success or, even if I were to be successful, of influencing the subject of electoral and parliamentary reform. I believe that the mainstream politicians will deliver some reform. Perhaps they will not go as far as I am suggesting but the benefit of some reform is that the advances it will provide will itself create the way by which further reform may come about.

What I have done, do and will continue to do on this blog is to express my political opinions. I make great efforts not to make personal criticisms of anyone in what I write. I try my utmost to moderate comments to avoid personal criticisms; I may not succeed but, when anyone points any failures out to me, I do reconsider and delete offending comments.

Neither this blog nor I have the power to promote anyone into government or remove anyone from government, as some have suggested. That power lies in the hands of the electorate alone. All that can happen is that my opinions may or may not sway voters. I trust that my decision not to stand for election will be indicative that what I do is express very much how I see politics. I do not believe that this delivers “independence”, as no one is “independent” in politics. What it delivers is my subjective analysis and view. You may or may not agree with my views, which is a right I deeply respect as a democrat.

What I do promise is that, on this blog and elsewhere, I will tirelessly pursue my campaign to achieve electoral and parliamentary reforms in order to correct the deficit that I feel exists in democracy today in Gibraltar. All I am doing by deciding not to stand for election is to have faith in the new impetus given to this issue by the mainstream parties. I am of the view that the statements made by both the GSD and the GSLP are now sufficiently robust for them not to retreat from their commitment to improve democracy in Gibraltar. The credibility of both of them will suffer no end, should they fail to deliver on these promises.

I make no excuses or apologies for vociferously pronouncing on policies and views that I adhere to and issues that I fervently believe in. I make no excuse or apologies for campaigning for greater democracy in Gibraltar. I believe we deserve it. I believe that we did not resist Franco’s Spain to accept any deficiencies in our democracy that are capable of being remedied by our Parliament. I hope that the GSD and the GSLP do not disillusion the electorate. If they do, they will not just be letting me down. They will be letting down all Gibraltar.

120 comments:

  1. Those of us who were involved in the NO Campaign in the referendum for a new constitution in 2006 never doubted that you would not stand for election. Llanito World provides something which the media in democratic countries is required to do but the media here doesn't do and that is to provide a forum for open debate. It is right that you should continue to focus on this. Some people are made for mano a mano debate and the rough and tumble of an elaction but your strength is in having brough LW to fruition. 145,000 clicks is no mean feat but your statement: "I am of the view that the statements made by both the GSD and the GSLP are now sufficiently robust for them not to retreat from their commitment to improve democracy in Gibraltar. The credibility of both of them will suffer no end, should they fail to deliver on these promises" is extraordinarily naive though I respect you for it. My commiserations to the guy who kept urging us to "save one vote for Mr. Vasquez". I hope that the next General election does not become a 2 party race for seats and that Charlie Gomez presents himself for election again, I think this time he has a better chance of being elected as do one or two members of the PDP. The last 4 years have proved almost everything that Charles said in the 2007 campaign, maybe he should join the PDP or try to get a team together. I have little trust in the GSD and no trust at all in Picardo's New GSLP.

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  2. Please not another parliament stuffed with talent free MPs! Y Gomez se presenta? Ehat about the other members of the COALITION of INDEPENDENTS for REFORM

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  3. I seriously doubt that anything positive is likely to materialise from Fabian Picardo. I do not think he is credible, I do not believe he has the strength or wisdom to lead Gibraltar and there is no doubt that his play to the gallery on every single issue including parliamentary reform, socialism, his twisted views on the economy and many other issues are a testament to the fact that he means to be all things to all men, a highly unsustainable and cowardly approach to politics.
    Frightening stuff to think he might be our next Cheif Minister.

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  4. Tomate says: Robert que esta disiendo? Caruana y Picardo se estan tirando a mata con lo de GP Noble, el banco Polular y Operacion Necora. No a leio le cronica? El Grasshopicardo dise que el bapuleo que le pego un juez en Londres es "irrelevant"!!!!!! Mas que un saltamonte se cre que es Teflon Man. Now more than ever we need an alternative to these people. Think again Robert que esto es de locos y a Gibraltar le ase farta un CAMBIO.

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  5. Eso como bien dice Picardo all law firms in Gibraltar have had and have pending cases with justice, or is he the only one that has consistently sailed extremely close to the wind. Unless other law firms confirm otherwise then all law firms have cases in the quite.... Obviously, law firms have kept things very quite but now we all know how they make so much money. Picardo thank you for opening our eyes..... Lawyers : Mafia.... Si al final the slope Fenian razon....

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  6. Robert, sorry to hear that you won’t be standing, but I’m glad you will now dedicate yourself to running and moderating this excellent forum of discussion and debate, and how all the parties in Gib will take on most of your policies if they haven’t already (hopefully you’ll make some headway in obtaining that elusive letter sent by Peter to the FSC).

    I genuinely didn’t consider Fabian to be leadership material until I watched the interview, but the refreshing and charismatic way in which he handled the many tough questions being asked of him was very impressive (Gerald Teuma was an excellent adjudicator and should also be proud of his performance throughout the show).

    The way in which he tackled the issue of the pending investigations, etc was brilliantly handled. I doubt I’m the only individual who having walked down Main Street has been subjected to the GSD rumour mill with respect to these issues and it was good to finally have them discussed out in the open. Hopefully Peter and the GSD as a whole will quickly learn that the emphasis of their campaign should not be based on whether they can sufficiently smear Fabian by the time the election rolls around, because as it has already been mentioned in other blog entries the majority of Gibraltarians would in all likelihood be prepared to vote for Fabian, even if they had doubts about his character and ability to lead, as opposed to Peter because he’s a viable alternative to what we’ve had to put up with from Peter and his despotic-esque rule during his last electoral term. It’s a shame that Caruana and his style of governing will be the downfall for the party this time round in a similar way to how Joe was in the last few elections for the GSLP. It seems the majority of the people don’t like him, and more importantly in my estimation, they don’t trust him. In my opinion (and what would be the only chance they would have to sway me personally) the emphasis of the GSD election campaign should be dedicated to honestly explaining why they failed to keep their election promises they have previously made to the electorate.

    The irony of their slogan being “Keep Trusting” is particularly amusing given that there has been a categorical failure on the GSD’s part to explain why many of their promised policies have not come to fruition and that they have instead thus far concentrate on trying to smear the newly appointed opposition leader without expressing any words of polite congratulations as would be the case in any other civilised and modern government in the world.

    The GSD is on its last legs, I believe it should recognise this and act accordingly. It should not be doing more of what in all likelihood contributed to getting it into this situation in the first place, they should be trying to appeal to disenchanted former GSD supporters in terms of their policies and again explaining why they have failed to deliver on their election and manifesto promises. Treat the electorate with respect instead of trying to “herd and scare the cattle” into doing what they want it to do out of fear with this Picardo scaremongering.

    Let the people of Gibraltar decide on who they should vote for based on the quality of the facts, policies and candidates that each party brings to the table.

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  7. RV
    Firstly your credibility has taken a hit now that you have admitted you will not stand for whatever reasons you give. Were u ever gonna stand in the first place?

    I think by not standing you have realised the GSLP will win the nxt election. Nevertheless it is unfortunate because I think you would have had a good chance of making history...
    DDM

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  8. Most people I know said that you would not have the the personal fortitude to stand for election as an independent. Admittedly standingfor election alone requires a particular kind of personality and very few have done it but I am shocked that you have thrown in the towel so early.

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  9. You have done the right thing Red Rob. After Fabian's demolition of the rumour mill on Viewpoint we must all stand shoulder to shoulder to get rid of Caruana. The person to do it is F-A-B-I-A-N P-I-C-A-R-D-O.

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  10. Michelle: I think that Charles Gomez is a testosterone fueled court room brawler and would make a good back bencher but you Robert are really an establishment man and any of the political parties would do well to invite you to join their ranks. if they do i hope you accept

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  11. Anon 8.55 it is not about personal insults. I think Fabian has done a tremendous job en ponerle el parche antes que le salga el grano and this let's not personalise issues has served him well as a mantra. But no one is personalising anything. In a democracy people are entitled to ask questions about the judgment of those who would lead us. The Noble case involved a 50 million fraud of a pension fund where monies were paid in and out without appropriate documents. Fabian judgment might be open to question as a result. On the Mexican case which Gerrard asked him about, Fabian said publicly in the Spanish press and in panorama newspaper that he acted for group of Mexican investors who were to buy the the third largest bank in Spain. Shares in Banco Popular rocketed. There then turned out that there were no Mexican investors. and Fabian The consequence is that the Spanish regulator has referred the matter to the fiscalia anti corrupcion and the matter is in the courts. So he is giving evidence as a witness in that case too Come on you are talking about a future chief minister and he cannot compare this to a libel case that Triay & Triay actually brought against El Mundo. Something that was not even of their making and their reputation was cleared when they won the case. The opposite of what Fabian said o GBC. I am glad all this is now in the open. And I emphasise no one is saying he is personally involved in fraud or anything like that. It is his propensity, as Bossano put it, to do "crazy things" I.e. Things without thinking things through.

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  12. well done Robert, you are an honest man and your writings reflect this.
    There are many important and necessary roles in the world of politics and I think you are providing one already. I for one, would not dream of voicing my opinions in public for fear of reprisals, but here I feel confident and secure to speak my mind. For this I thank you.
    Keep upmost in your mind, that you have given a lot of people the freedom of speech, even if it is behind a cloak of anonymity.
    Perhaps you will come to see one day that you have more strength and power through this medium, than if you actually sat in Parliament.

    Anna Conda

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  13. you're right anon @ 18:37, we wouldn't want Fabian to do anything crazy, like popping over to Seville and announcing to all the Spanish journalists there that an Andorra solution to the Gibraltar issue would be a possibility.

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  14. Andorra the new last refuge of scoundrels?

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  15. so now its bad to be a patriot?

    I believe we held a referendum in 2002 to determine the support for a proposal to share our sovereignty between Britain and Spain. The result was 17900 to 187 against.

    we must all be very bad then, and perhaps you enjoy reading your Johnson among the 187!

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  16. BOSWELL: Caruana put his foot in it big time when he metioned Andorra. He is an arrogant not very likeable person but that does not mean that Andorra is now the magic word that can save Picardo from having to explain Blueline, Banco Popular, G.P. Noble etc and "doing silly things" past, present & future. Gibraltarians are not that stupid!

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  17. Fabian picardo is not capable of being a Cheif minister of Gibraltar. We would be doing ourselves a massive injustice if we were to replace a great Cheif minister for someone with little substance and questionable issues surrounding his professional career which would no doubt affect Gibraltar integrity and political stability internationally.

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  18. The latest crazy thing from Gasshopicardo is his balls up about Operacion Necora. The fellow has hardly started and already he has more baggage than Louis Vuitton. Caruana may be an insufferable blimp but Picardo has the worst conceiavable pair of hands.

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  19. shout all you like, but ultimately the electorate will have the last word.
    At the last election, your wonderful & great chief minister scraped through by a few votes, today he is less popular than he was then but the GSLP is even more popular than they were 4 years ago! Do the maths, guys!

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  20. Que rollo todo esto. The thing that should be in the little minds of those who cast auspertions on anyone should do what michael jackson said in his song ie look in the mirror.
    The real debate should be whether it is the govt who should have brought out a press release answering Fabians points on viewpoint or not.
    I believe that is it an abuse of power and using the govt resources on electoral issues should be done by the GSD as a party. But then again 1) the GSD is in disarray.
    2) The current chief minister thinks he owns the govt for himself.
    3) there is no-one to stop him and if he gets elected again he will be close to politicians in third world countries.
    The reality is that I have lots that I can say about Caruanas Judgment on many issues. One blogger mentioned the Andorra episode or I can mention the wisdom of defending the Guardia Civils as a young lawyer and being an electoral agent of the PAG or letting the Guardia Civils scot free when they entered Gibraltar with guns and all. One can even speculated at thwe fact that he left them free because he had defended them before. I could go on.
    I still think that we should all be concentrating on policy politics and who stands for what. And that the GSD or Caruana should not be allowed to use government resources to do his campaign of character assasination of anyone.
    Oye y que sabe Hewitt de todo esto?? Anyone who knows him knows full well sabe que esta echao pero los cagetas del GSD!!!

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  21. Por favor prefiero al arogante de Caruana que un Chief Ministron que estee dando evidencia (como witness) por medio mundo. Lechuga quien va a run Gibraltar cuando este tio estee helping foreign prosecutors?

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  22. Anon 20:15: what makes you think the GSLP have grown in popularity. Some argue that you peaked four years ago.
    16 is a long time for both sides and in that time you have shown zero policies, zero leadership and an awful lot of hot air. If picardo and 16 years is all you are counting on, you may well be waiting a while longer. Then again if Picardos indiscrepancies are real and a threat we may even have bossano back as leader.

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  23. I was not at Triay & Triay when Necora was a case in Spain. The case did not involve Triay & Triay or any lawyer from that firm. Fabian Picardo's attempt at casting aspersions on the CM based on that case are baseless, unfounded and unjustified.

    His assertion that Triay & Triay lost its libel case against El Mundo is wrong. Triay & Triay won the libel case and El Mundo was held to have libeled lawyers at Triay & Triay. Fabian Picardo's situtation and the cases involving him are very different. They involve him directly and personally for actions taken by him professionally.

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  24. I am a GSLP supporter and I will vote block or the GSLP next election. I have supported the GSLP for 30 years and will continue to do so but Licudi did us no favours in not standing the leadership of the GSLP and we could rue the fact that Picardo will lead us at the next election. Hopefully our policies and manifesto compared to the arrogance of Caruana will us through.

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  25. Hombre por fin. Thank you Robert for your confirmation of the facts. Surely you must agree that the numerous cases in which mr picardo is involved cast serious doubt on his ability to run the office of Cheif Min.
    Quite apart from all of this we all seem to forget the facts and the realities surrounding what is Gibraltar and our success in the face of a global crisis.
    Fabians viewpoint was superficial and riddled with attempts at play to the gallery with absolutely no foundation or substance. It will be interesting to see how many new and really credible candidates he can attract for the next election. I wonder if the likes of Christian Rocca, Albert Isola, Damon Bossino (co GNP founder member) and other serious characters are avaialble to this new leader. Unlikely!

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  26. Anonymous at 21:26

    Sorry could not do it earlier. I have been at a wedding!

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  27. ahu, ahu, au, como esta el patio hoy

    anon @ 20:54 si no sabe abla en llani, stick to english or castellano, ke hay ke leer lo tuyo con un pish accent pa enterarte del post. lol

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  28. Anonymous at 09:43

    Naivety and optimism can be good tactics in politics especially where it is overridden be skepticism and pessimism. Give chance a chance and give the electorate some credit. I assume you had not read today's Chronic when you wrote your comment ... things are going in the right direction. Please read my article holistically. I say much more ...

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  29. Anonymous at 09:43

    Naivety and optimism can be good tactics in politics especially where politics is mired in widespread skepticism and pessimism like in Gibraltar. Give chance a chance and give the electorate some credit. I assume you had not read today's Chronic when you wrote your comment in which GSD proposals have been published ... things are going in the right direction. Please read my article holistically. I say much more ...

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  30. The parliamentary reform proposals published today by the GoG are yet another example if this Govts ability to listen to the electorate. I thank LW for pushing the boat out on this. It took LW months to achieve something that has escaped the GSLP for 16 years.

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  31. Well, the necora case was a case of libel against El Mundo del Siglo XXI (not to be confused with El Mundo newspaper) for publishing a list of Triays partners including PRC under the heading, 'Los Blanqueadores'. Don't know why Fabian said Triays lost the case if they won but I would like to know what led the publication to allege that these lawyers were "blanqueadores". Were they trying to smear the whole legal profession in Gib and used these as an example? We know that certain local law firms have fallen prey to stings (Valencia TV, Antena 3 etc) but what was it that Triay's specifically did to warrant these allegations being levelled at them?

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  32. If it has escaped anybody, surely it must be the party IN Government. Last time I looked, the GSD are in government & not the GSLP.

    aqui, cuando el ninio es bueno y wapo se parese al padre, pero cuando es malo y feo, a la madre!

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  33. Gianni

    Very simple a local lawyer who was arrested in the case referred to Triay & Triay in his defence and then the Spanish press picked up a defamatory fag end! Please do not imply any more into it because Triay & Triay had NOTHING to do with any of the allegations and the courts held that they were libeled ... END OF STORY ... EL GAT NO TINE UNA QUINTA PATA ... and yes I do know the name of the lawyer who was arrested in Spain ...

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  34. Gianni

    Very simple a local lawyer who was arrested in the case referred to Triay & Triay to try to defend himself by comparison and then the Spanish press picked up a defamatory fag end! Please do not imply any more into it because Triay & Triay had NOTHING to do with any of the allegations and the courts held that they were libeled ... END OF STORY ... EL GATO NO TIENE UNA QUINTA PATA ... and yes I do know the name of the lawyer who was arrested in Spain ...

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  35. Robert I feel as if you have let me down. I genuinely believed in your cause.

    Furthermore something doesn't seem quite right. A man as intelligent as yourself cannot surely be that naive.

    I guess time will tell.....

    K

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  36. Cornflakes why has Robert let anyone down. He has drawn attention to a very important issue. People have listened and he has done a good job. I don't understand your comment at all.

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  37. Anon 22:42

    It's about principles, not that I would expect someone who refers to me as cornflakes to understand.

    K

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  38. Forget Caruana, GSD etc... Yo de PICARDO no me fio un pelo, and rightly so. Gilbertun tip honesto y capaz... Garcia tip honesto... Guys we might want Caruana out but not at any expense....

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  39. In other words, Robert, you are saying that Fabian has tried to mislead people with his words about Necora. Is that right?

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  40. Anonymous at 23:53

    He certainly did not get his facts right ...

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  41. I thought that the European and British justice and you Robert believe in the principle of people being innocent until proven guilt. Many have already made their minds up and therefore I will ignore all that is being say about Fabian since I BELIEVE in that principle.
    Though I think that Caruana is Guilt of being arrogant since He has himself proved this. He has proved that he is no longer capable of running our affairs since he has failed to have the parliamentary reforms he promised in 2003 and 2007 as you Robert have argued on numerous occasions.And now he proposes reform. Too little to late!
    Caruana has failed with the Cordoba Agreement by giving unnecessary concessions on the Airport, we still have queues at the frontier, A Trojan Horse in the Instituto Cervantes, Inflated Pensions for the Spaniards which the British govt is paying, YES.
    Caruana has forgotten about us the Gibraltarians, Social Services in a mess, The GHA in a mess, Training in a mess, Our Beaches in a mess, This despite the sand which will last less than three months and at the cost of YES £700,000. Playgrounds in a mess for the last 10 years and now they spend more than a million because they don't do it before.
    The Playground at Europa Point (which is great I admit) even had a sign up before the 2007 election as yet another gimmick but will last a few months since it is in the wrong place because the weather will destroy it unfortunately at a cost of YES £1.4m.

    We need Occupational Therapist, Educational Psychologists, Social Workers, etc.
    We now have toilets at the cost of £1.75m. AND a non existent Theatre Royal at the cost of now over £7m.
    What an indictment on Caruana and you are all now discussing the integraty of some one who is still innocent of all the ALLEGATIONS levelled at him.
    Frankly it is all to me a farce to cover up the terrible debt that we will leave our children and our children's children.
    We now owe over £480m and rising with all irresponsible things that Caruana is doing at the last minute just to try to get four more years.
    Dios nos libre!!
    Conque yo me fio de Mickey Mouse ante que Caruana.
    Tanyou!!

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  42. Anon 00:08

    You have hit the nail on the head, Caruana has long forgotten his people (or so I also believe).

    K

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  43. Escusha k que te pareces a moises con tanto our people.

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  44. you believe wrong Kaelan.Peter Caruana and his Government have done more for Gibraltar in 15 years than any other Govt previously. Have they made mistakes, you bet they have, but in the balance they have taken Gibraltar out of the doldrums & made it a better place for all Gibraltarians.

    The one promise that Fabian Picardo made in his interview the other evening was that he & his Govt would make mistakes "because they are human" It seems that he is more tolerant and accepting of errors being made than some of his followers.

    This is just my humble opinion.

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  45. escusha anon @ 00:36, grow up!

    anon @ 00:08 I agree, we need to concentrate on 'our people'. Sadly, for the GSD, 'our people' means the GSD elite & friends only, and not the ordinary Gibraltarians.
    Instead of wasting our money on the 7 toilets, we could have invested the £1.75 million in our schools which badly need the extra cash.
    Governor's Meadow & Bishop Fitzgerald are housed in a pre-fab building that the MOD assembled over 40 years ago & Bayside is the same since it was built sabe Dios cuando.
    New teachers remain on the supply list for 5 or 6 years, despite covering a post permanently. Because they are on supply, banks won't even afford them a mortgage or a loan. We even have to rely on charities to supply our schools with specialised equipment!

    I'd love to know, what revenue has been collected from the toilets since they were installed; I doubt the amount exceeds £20!

    I went past Sandy Bay today, for the moment its huge and looking great, but I ask myself, 'where is everybody going to park their cars? what's the point of making a huge beach, if with the millions you spent in refurbishing the surrounding areas, you never included adequate parking facilities. Obviously, the sandy bay-plan was thought up well after the tunnel works took place!

    I believe there are many who are sick and tired of excuses and wasting money at the 11th hour to try and fob off the ordinary Gibraltarian.

    Its time for a change, and for me, Fabian Picardo is a Gibraltarian who will put 'our people' first.

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  46. rob esta vendido como unite

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  47. Anon 00:08. GHA are not in a mess, there are mngt issues; beaches are better than ever and have improved year on year, we just don't have sight of fast launches coming in and out now; children parks are being done and there is nothing to suggest that there is anything wrong in the fact that they have been done within the four tear term, or are you suggesting that all commitments have to be done in the first two years?; there are 300 unemployed in Gib and still there are commitments by this Govt to support locally qualified persons whilst akways making sure we comply with our European responsibilities, something Picardo cunningly made reference to in his bullshit infested promise to sort out the nonexistent unemployment problem for locals;
    Toilets are required, given the volume if people now arriving and visiting Gibraltar; the theatre royal is a valid point but you will note that it was a mandate given to a political parties back in 96. The reality surrounding it tidY is that it would be money badly spent to recreate into a theatre given is location and the modern requirements essential in theatres today.

    Now to the GSLP............ What have they done in 16 years? Sweet f all and all under the leadership if a four time loosing leader with Pucardo at hand. What's scary is that now that we have Pocardo in charge he continues to maintain that the GSLP will remain the same. Brilliant, a party of change people, I'll be queuing up to vote for them - por los cojone.

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  48. GSLP will win the elections. Caruana is finished. Ha ruinado financially a Gibraltar. Sino time will tell. Estamos harto. Si se ve tan shulo now is the time to call the elections - now that he thinks he has Fabian by the balls. El Hewitt que lastima me da de el. GBC made sure that his call got in first.

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  49. Anonymous at 05:00

    I must be doing something right if I get this type of comment from both tribes, the GSLP and the GSD :)

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  50. Robert you are doing everything right and from where I am standing clearly you are also seeing Picardos true colours if you can call it that.

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  51. anon @ 9:42, what beach do you go to? the beaches have had a facelift in the past 16 years, a bit of paint, but no new facilities installed.
    Eastern beach had new changing rooms built only because they would become inaccessible when the tunnel was being built, The restaurant was moved for the same reasons. The beach had never seen so much investment since it became an obstacle. This year half of the beach will not be easy to access, and knowing this, Catalan Bay has finally been made bigger. Never mind that beach-goers and residents alike have been asking for this for years. Why hasn't this been done before?
    What a coincidence that this year, months before an election, and weeks after the Mountain started spilling its building rubble onto the beach, that Catalan Bay has seen an investment. What a coincidence that the year that eastern beach becomes smaller, Catalan Bay becomes bigger!
    The mountain of rubble between these two beaches keeps getting bigger and bigger. The rubbish continues to fall into the sea, and the tide will continue to heap dangerous rubble onto the shore, no matter how much sand you add.
    Sandy Bay, neglected to the point of having to close it down, all of a sudden is remembered by this Government. Pity they forgot the bit about parking when they finally got down to making the cliff above the tunnel safe. The residents were shocked to realise the wonderful new plans for the area didn't include a place to park their cars. What is going to happen this summer when the hundreds descend on the beach? Will there be a U-turn and allow parking along the road in front of both worlds? I doubt it, the huge lorries full of rubble on the way to the Mountain won't be able to pass!
    Another coincidence, Western Beach will be closed this year, no wonder Sandy Bay has had to be revived! Britto called it 'an experiment', weren't specialist advisers involved in the plans for this?
    Little Bay esta igual.
    Camp Bay was actually refurbished by this Government. Pity they didn't include more toilets! Its a big beach, and it only has one changing room, but it got its lick of paint and new dustbins!
    You say we don't have the sight of the fast launches? We do still have the Guardia Civil coming in beyond the buoys, even when our Police is present and telling them to leave.

    Beaches are better than ever? I don't think so at all, mate!

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  52. Anon 11:20. Sorry yes you are right and for that reason you have single handedly swayed me with your substantive argument in the beaches.
    Por los cojone. If you can't see improvement and continued infrastructure works that will lead to further improvements accross the board you are either blind or refuse to admit the facts in the wake of the illusionist that is the spin machine of the GSLP.

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  53. How many unemployed youngsters are covered by Vocational Training Scheme?
    How much do they earn a month?
    and how many of them find permanent employment, after Government stops paying their wages under the Scheme?
    How many of them are not kept on in their placement and are just replaced by another trainee, when this happens?

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  54. Does anyone know who Mark Ashbey is? Apparently he is in the line up for the GSLP. He runs a group on Facebook which I know Robert is involved with.

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  55. Anonymous at 11:44

    I am not "involved in" the FB group that Mark Ashby runs. It is a closed group that discusses Gibraltar politics. I was invited to join and participate. I rarely participate or comment on it. I read and find it a useful source of opinion. I do not know Mark Ashbey or know who he is.

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  56. anon @ 11.43
    I too could have dismissed anon@9:42's sweeping statement with a sweeping statement of my own, instead I have gone through each beach, one by one and explained my reasoning as to why I disagreed with him.
    I suggest you do the same, if you can that is!
    Anon @ 11:20

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  57. y este Mark ke se presenta pa el GSLP? tu como lo sabe?

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  58. Anon 11:50. Hence why we are all voting GSLP. Porque tu te Han erollao picha.

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  59. 'Han erollao picha'

    what do you mean by this?

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  60. Anon 11:53. Apparently he is a key player and a number of MPs from the GSLP hold him in High regard including Neil Costa, Steven Linares and Dr j. Judging by his writing skills he is a bright character and well in with the GSLP hierarchy. You see I knew the GSLP had depth in candidates - now all we need to do is work out who he is?

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  61. healthy debate & informed argument anon@12:12, not insults & sweeping dismissals. Credit the rest of us with a little intelligence and stop speaking down at us, it does your party no good!

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  62. Anon 12:36. That's rich - all you're lot have been doing for 16 years is exactly that. Apologies if it's rubbed off on us. Valiente cara. Do you read the Key and the new people mate. I take it you regard it as substantive and intelligent substance for debate do you.

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  63. anon @ 12:31 a key player... where? from the evidence you provide, I think you are making a lot of assumptions. Could it be you are fishing for information here? LOL

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  64. Does anyone know who Mark Ashbey is? Everyone I ask doesn't know and his facebook page contains no photographs. Is he the same person who writes on this blog as Mark A (independent commentator)?

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  65. 'Our people' want everything to be handed to them on a silver platter.... Everyone likes and enjoys what this government has provided but all are keen to criticise... The Europa point park, a cost of £1.4m yes, but that is what they cost!! It's not as if the government has gone out looking for the most expensive toys.... Though if most of us, the people, werent as 'aprovechones' as we are, then we would understand that things cost money... The same goes for those who complain about the size of the bedrooms by the new housing estate in Coaling Island... Well if you don't like it then buy one 'a tu gusto' or would that stop you from buying a house in Spain or that Mercedes??! Regardless of who wins the elections the issues will still be the same as us, the people, are the ones with the issues. We complain about unemployment but no one seems to apply for that vacancy at the sandwich shop, it seems that is beneath us 'the people'. I, for one, get pissed off when I hear about people getting government flats when they either sold their flats in Gib or have a mansion in Spain - they should have not been on the housing list in the first place!
    It is clear that the GSLP have hardcore followers because their families have always followed Bossano y el miraba por la gente 'the people'. But has the GSLP come out and said how they are going to fix what this Government has, according to them, done wrong? No. Typically of the 'people' they complain but have not given solutions.
    I would like to see fresh blood in our House, maybe Robert could have provided some of that... Now we will never know. It's time for a change but within the present government. Hopefully, the change will bring about less opportunities para que 'los aprovechones' se puedan aprovecha...
    Jelly

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  66. As Robert rightly says Politiqueo is a closed group in FB started & administrated by one Mark Ashbey, a job which he has done well and albeit slanted to his personal support to the GSLP, a stance that he has never hidden.

    The problem lies in the fact that Mr Ashbey has always been a strong advocate of people in his group always posting in their own name and chastised those who have not. It has come as a huge shock and revelation when it turns out that Mr Ashbey himself does not excist. That he is hiding behind a fake profile, while he has actively accused others...and rightly so , of doing likewise.

    Worse still is the fact that our mystery man aka Mark Ashbey has over time befriended over 300 people on his personal fake profile, the majority of these are GSLP cabinet members & activists, but also a large & varied cross section of our society. Why?

    I have personally spoken to at least 15 people from his friends list. None of them know him. Why has this person set up a fake profile? Why has he taken the time & trouble to befriend so many ppl? The bulk of his "friends" come from within the GSLP elite, are they privy to his/her real identity? Is this just one more of the many GSLP satellite FB Groups set up as independant but then slowly taken over by the GSLP elite? Is this how they work, through deception, giving the inpression that they have huge support on FB, when really it is just a huge illusion created by a few to make people think that they are supreme? I am disgusted with this whole story. Before anyone tells me that a am a GSD supporter, I am not !!! I support the PDP, who is the only Party that is a true option for change in Gibraltar. The GSLP have not changed at all in their tactics, in fact they are worse than ever and I say to them. Have some respect for the people & for our intelligence !!!

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  67. What about instead of spending £250000 per toilet, which only increase the number of wc's by 7, the government had built normal toilets - Los de toda la vida and used the money to employ people to clean them. In some wc's I have seen the attendant literally walks in after you to check that the wc has been left in a hygienic state and cleans it frequently. The wc's would have cost a snip on the price and at say £20000 pa by how much could the unemployed list have been reduced? £1.75M could go so much further. Less of the Gib Govt crest of arms and more sense is what is needed.

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  68. More news on Mark Ashbey, he does not exist, so I guess he's not running for election. Turns out that it is a bogus name fabricated to create what seemed an authentic group and what turned out to be a GSLP driven political group of GSD bashers. What is unbelievable is that there are some genuine people who have been posting on Politiqueo who are genuinely aggreived at being taken for a ride by what seems to be one one of various political groups set up by the GSLP with what transpires to be malicious intent and deception. Together with the Key and New People you guys are well on to taking over the world. I wonder what avid writers like Jonathan Stagnetto and Neil Costa have to say about this turn of events - outrageous.

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  69. Robert let me just say that as a GSLP supporter I do not believe that you have “sold out” nor do I believe that you have compromised your credibility, integrity and beliefs by not standing for the upcoming election. Ever since you began running this blog and revealed your true identity as its moderator you made it known throughout that the intention behind each of your pieces was never driven by any political affiliation, any effort to get back at Dear Cousin Peter as GSD supporters used to frequently state, or at this juncture to now somehow “smear” Fabian by simply pointing out and explaining how his reference to the Necora case wasn’t accurate for the reasons you have already set out.

    You have always strived to push for reforms and changes within Gibraltar that you felt were best for it as a whole and this was always reflected in your pieces whether they criticised the GSD, GSLP, et al. The GSD more often than not were the party targeted the most in a respective piece, but as you often pointed the onus is on them as the Government of the day to implement change and their promised policies, not on the opposition or any other political party.

    I respect you for having had the courage to continue to run this blog in the face of at times overwhelming fanaticism from all sides (mainly the GSD contingent of unhappy campers) and I respect your decision to no longer put yourself forward for the election in light of the reasons you have kindly provided us. I hope that both of the main parties will continue to include and push for the much needed reforms that you initially put forwards when you announced you were standing for election. You are one man who has already taken a substantial financial hit for sticking to your convictions (the FSC saga), you have already done much more than the next man in an effort to push for reforms that you feel would be best for Gibraltar, and it would be incredibly unreasonable to brand you as lacking credibility for choosing to undergo the significant financial burden of standing for election by yourself.

    Anon 14 MAY 2011 19:07
    Andorra is far from being a last refuge for scoundrels, it is actually the first hospice for those within Gibraltar who are concerned about where exactly the current Chief Minister’s true opinions and thoughts lie concerning the issue of sovereignty. The fact the great majority of us are obviously opposed to such an agreement being put into place and thus making it incredibly hard for a given government to implement such an “Andorra model” does not mean that the fact that the CM might have differing beliefs to my own in respect of this issue is any less significant to me as a Gibraltarian.

    (part 1)

    LG

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  70. (Part 2)

    Anon 14 MAY 2011 20:59

    Although I don’t speak for Anon 20:15, nor do I know his reasons for believing that the GSLP has grown in popularity, I do consider their observation be correct. I base this not only on the changing allegiance of myself and many of my friends, but more importantly on the fact that since the election you made reference to 4 years ago (where the postal votes weren’t counted) the Panorma pre-election poll which has set a historic precedent for having been correct in every other previous occasion indicated there had been a drop in GSD support and a surge in GSLP support. Obviously people who contributed in that poll based their decision on a GSLP party with Joe at the head, who had at that point in time lost 4 elections. Honestly I feel that came about as a result of disenchanted GSD supporters (like myself) being fed up of the current administration as opposed to the GSLP doing anything aside from being a viable alternative. Whether this lead that the party had would increase with Fabian at the head is impossible to say, voters like myself would feel reluctant to give their vote to them had Joe been on top as usual, but I’m sure there will be arguments to the contrary.

    Anon 15 MAY 2011 00:52

    The most important distinction between what Fabian alluded to and the mistakes you say the GSD have made during their time on top (a view with which I agree, particularly during this last electoral term) is that hopefully the GSLP administration with Fabian at the helm will upon having made a mistake will actually throw their hands up and make themselves accountable to the electorate who voted them in on the basis of the promises they made to them, as opposed to sweeping the neglected policies and issues under the carpet. Of course I am of the view that a given government is capable of making mistakes along with all of the other good things they may do, however, the sign of a great government is how open and transparent they are with the way in which they present having made these mistakes to the electorate as a whole.

    Treat the electorate with respect, do not try and subject them to scaremongering in an effort to coerce them into doing what you would like them to do. It has been repeated on many occasions by other contributors that if the GSD continue to focus their campaign on what a “dodgy” character Fabian is, then they are simply going to lose because at the end of the day even if there are some people who may not completely trust Fabian and his capacity to be a good leader, they would still rather vote for him as a opposed to a GSD administration with Caruana at the helm. The fact that Fabian carried himself incredibly well in the interview when faced with some very challenging questions (Gerald Teuma was excellent throughout) makes this even clearer in my opinion.

    Anon 15 MAY 2011 11:44

    On what basis are you arguing that “Mark Ashbey” is a key player and in the line up for the GSLP? It seems from where I’m standing that the GSD rumour mill continues to be hard at work.

    LG

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  71. This Mark Ashbey situation is so classic of the GSLP. Lies lies lies and more Lies.

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  72. "Mr Ashbey has always been a strong advocate of people in his group always posting in their own name and chastised those who have not." This is simply not true. Pseudonyms have been used by a minority of posters on that now-defunct group from the outset. It was only when someone called 'Gibraltarian Realities' started to hurl very personal insults at a certain prominent group member that pseudonyms became an issue. 'GR' was perfectly entitled to post under a pseudonym but not to insult. He was removed from the group by popular request - because other members complained about his highly personal attacks. Nothing to do with using a pseudonym.

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  73. I wonder whose brilliant idea this Mark Ashbey thing was? Who exercised his brilliant JUDGMENT in creating or allowing the creation of a fake identity to set up this face book page and then contact members of the community to worm his way into their good books and then criticise the Government and Government Ministers. Brilliant JUDGMENT mate.

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  74. Mr Ashbey does not exist anon19:22. Who are you protecting here. The antics of the GSLP on numerous Facebook pages and groups are despicable, misleading and can only be classified as in keeping with all they are capable of. There is no defence for the agenda which has clearly been driven by who the real Ashbey is. At least we know one thing and that is that the I.t. brain behind this farse is the GSLP I.T man, maybe he will have the decency to tell us who Mark really is. I doubt it though. When the going gets tough the cowards pull the plug and run.

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  75. Anon 18:34, what lies?

    As Mark Ashbey and other contributors pointed out there had never been a problem within the group in terms of how it was moderated by Mark Ashbey, and anonymous accounts were never scrutinised against with the exception of ‘Gibraltarian Realities’ a GSD propaganda group on Facebook.

    Gibraltarian Realties’ manner of discussion was abrasive to say the least and the admin (gasp, Mark Ashbey himself!) received a number of requests from different members of the group across the board complaining about Gibraltarian Realities' posts and so ‘it’ was accordingly removed.

    The demise of the Politiqueo group itself presents the GSD elite an unfortunate opportunity to try and spin its purpose and the discussions that were had there to suit its desired image of it having been a corrupt GSLP propaganda device, even though its membership was diverse, albeit limited and cross-party debates were encouraged.

    I for one will miss the group and I am saddened that the only alternative on Facebook exists in the form of ‘Gibraltar Politics’, a comparatively cluttered and less engaging forum of discussion where GSD/ GSLP propaganda accounts (including yes, Gibraltarian Realities) are able to run wild and clog up the walls.

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  76. I heard a different version of the Mark Ashbey story. I heard that a GSD sympathiser went and created this fake persona, who then went on to become a friend of the GSLP on Facebook, in order to spy on the party. He also created this group called Politiqueo, later on calling it Politiqueo Llanito. In this group, he encouraged everybody to speak their minds , and always came out very pro-GSLP. Because of this, when he sent a friend request to the likes of Picardo, etc, he was added on without question. He knew this would happen as it is well known that all politicians on all sides will add every friend request they receive.
    Being vociferously pro-GSLP, other GSLP sympathisers felt comfortable in the group and opened up, continuously beating down the few GSD sympathisers who felt unable to continue the argument because they either had nothing to offer or they weren't accustomed to being contradicted.

    Nevertheless, the debates become louder and many truths came to the front until the Powers that Be realised this had worked against them instead. The GSLP sympathisers they had discovered were known to them in any case, and they were losing face all the time, so they sent Isobel in to destroy this group in such a way that it would look like the groups was in fact a GSLP idea in the first place. Knowing that once this had been achieved, the rest of the literati would be waiting in the wings to bombard this forum with rumours and lies.

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  77. Anon 19:57, a VERY interesting theory that makes sense considering some of the things he said within the group.

    Very amusing it were to be true, but not surprising.

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  78. Anon 19:57 did you get this info whilst flying in formation with a squad if pigs over the bay? Truly exceptional stuff, you do know that it was Girdon who assisted Mark don't you? And you also know that this is the same character that maintains GSLP I.T.

    and anon19:55. El culo tuyo. What a crock if shite, excuse my language. You write incredibly well though and with such elegance. Let's see an ex-boarding school liberal from a wealthy family with convenient and idealistic isms who likely feels that a revolution is in order. You should meet Kaelan, you'd have a field day of ideological machinations to look forward to.

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  79. Haha Anon 20:24, thanks, you write so eloquently yourself!

    I'm sorry you disagree with my opinion of what I perceived the group to be. No need to be so aggressive :)

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  80. anon @ 20:24, Girdon? who is Girdon?

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  81. Anyone in the financial world knows that there are people out there who will try any means to hide money etc. Bankers have this problem, barristers too. All that one can do is report these issues when becomes aware of them. It is just ideal for the GSD to have something to batter the new leader for. Gutter politics - it will be a dirty campaign once again - instead of trying to convince the electorate that they have done well - in their mind - or that they can do better, it is far better to try to win by reviving the past, the launches - yawn!!! Now it's Fabian bashing time. Sick or what? Just get on with on with the task - try to win on merits, on achievements, on future aspirations. Call an election NOW! What are you waiting for? Things will only get worse the longer you wait.

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  82. I meant Gordon Gibraltar. Anon 20:28, aggressive? I think I have a right to be aggressive and more. Do you think that these tactics from the party faithful who represent what might be the next Govt is to be taken lightly?
    I and others including good hardworking GSLP fans are fuming at these turn if events. F#%*ing hell man this outrageous!!!!!

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  83. Gordon Gibraltar helping Mark Ashbey? De donde te a sacao eso? LOLOL
    Gordon Gibraltar is Nelson Gordon, spokesperson for the Gibraltar Local Disability Society, he may also run the GSLP's website, but he hasn't been involved in Politiqueo Llanito more than any other regular contributor. He submitted a draft of rules for the group, which some commented on as being a bit OTT.
    If you say he was involved with Mark Ashbey, then you must know something the rest of us don't, so stop the innuendos, and come out with it instead.

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  84. This is all shocking and typical of the GSLP. It is what the new people and the key have done for years. Lie and more lies. Get to power at all costs. And now this character anon 19.57 saying it's a GSD mole undermining the GSD. For goodness sakes at leat Stagnetto tried a better line which was that Ashbey was afraid of reprisals and hence the need for anonymity. You cannot have it both ways. We need to vote PDP! Clean up our politics.

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  85. anon @ 21:40, please don't get ahead of yourself, you did only get 3% of votes last time, and you have never had anybody elected into Parliament under the PDP banner.

    We don't need to vote PDP, and we don't need to allow the GSD to fire this up into a frenzy for their own personal gains.

    And don't complain about the new people and the key, because the PDP enjoy the anti-GSD rants as much as the GSD enjoy the anti-GSLP rants on the 7 days!

    Its you who can't have it both ways, remember you've all left the GSD!

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  86. Kaelan Joyce said...
    00:52

    You are correct, Caruana has indeed done a lot of good for Gibraltar (and bad) but NOT always for the people of Gibraltar, or so I believe. Shall I elaborate?

    Anon’s in regards to Mark Ashbey....

    This person (who ever he may be) recently closed the “llanito Politique” Facebook group, which I was also part of. He did so after being targeted by the GSD and more specifically Isobel Ellul -Hammond. It was her with the help of Ernest Falquero (an estranged local who has lived many years abroad) who in my opinion forced Mark to close his group. She was the one who started of the thread that implied that the identity of the aforementioned Ashbey should be questioned.

    Personally I do not believe there was a need for such an aggressive interrogation. After all “Ashbey” even though a GSLP supporter seemed to be a good group moderator and hardly ever intervened in the group arguments.

    It was clear why they were doing so though. The group was exposing the GSD and the potential candidates for what they really where and they were getting “hammered” for it.

    The GSD posse was fighting a losing battle and even one GSD supporter (on that same group) publicly stated that she had been impressed with Fabian Picardo.

    So what did they do? Instead of providing adequate arguments or rebuttals the GSD posse decided to launch an all out assault on the group host instead. Extremely cowardly behavior in my opinion.

    During my time on the group I witnessed many elite GSD members leave as they were not inclined to debate with us mere mortals, or so it seemed. On the rare instances that we were indeed graced with their presence they tended to either make tentative contributions or launch full on personal attacks.

    For example Mr. Tampin never once contributed to the group discussion then one day for no apparent reason targets ME! He then publicly proceeds to state that I am a far right wing extremist and a bigot which was fair enough, I have been called far worse things. But at least give a valid assessment for doing so. I was shocked by such accusations especially when one takes into account that these comments were totally out of context with the group discussions. He then proceeded to leave the group without giving any reasons what so ever for his rants.

    This is the type of behavior that was exhibited on this same group and it was all there for everyone to see!! No wonder Mr’s Ellul-Hammond crusaded (in my opinion) for its dissolution.

    Furthermore one potential GSD candidate after a rather heated argument with myself and aided once again by the infatuated Falquero (or so it seemed) was exposed for apparently “misleading” the public. Very serious allegations that were then subsequently backed up by a member of the ESG.

    The question here is why did this person who ever he was create the persona “Mark Ashbey”?

    What did he fear? What was he AFRAID of?

    It is a sad day indeed to see capable and intelligent individuals, which I deemed “mark” to be hiding behind the cloak of anonymity because of FEAR of possible retribution.

    What Gibraltar do we live in that PEOPLE ARE SCARED to come out and post with their real names??? It seems that the GSD Government has created a very hostile environment, which hardly promotes freedom of speech or expression!!

    LLW is a prime example everyone posts anonymously!!

    Come on people do not be blinded!! A GSLP supporter creating a facebook group with a few members on it for OPEN debate is one thing and quite another what the GSD is doing.

    K

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  87. Kaelan

    I see you are resorting to telling lies now!

    Mark Ashbey has closed the group for reasons best known to himself. He was rumbled to the fact that his persona is fake. No undue pressure was put on him. He was simply questioned my some, to explain himself! All he had to do was tell the truth, and I for one would have been happy to accept this. Instead, he chose to close the group!

    Anyone who saw the various threads, will have seen my three or four posts on the subject, actually being supportive of the possibility that he, as an individual perhaps in a sensitive government job or agency, wished to remain anonymous. I was acutally supportive of him, should that be the case.

    The only reason it became an issue, as far as I am concerned, was because Mark himself, created a precedent, in barring someone else using a pseudonym. Otherwise, it would not have been a problem!

    Please... do not go around telling LIES... especially about me... thank you!

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  88. please google Mark Ashbey & look for him on twitter, (@MarkAshbey), he's for real. He may not relish the idea of his image been plastered all over the net or even to be investigated by a Government and his followers as if he was a criminal, but that doesn't make him a fake persona or anything else as sinister.

    The GSD are barking up the wrong tree!

    They have succeeded in silencing the voices of dissent though (even if its momentarily) and this move should be at the top of everybody's list of concerns.

    Why would they care about a few people commenting on Facebook? Its not as if this was a group restricted to GSLP followers. There were independants there (like Robert), GSD supporters, as well as PDP too. There were even a few Gibraltarians, and non-Gibraltarians living abroad too.

    Why has this the GSD felt the need to silence this group? AFter all, it was a closed group so its not as if everybody could read the discussions going on.

    Freedom of Speech? I think NOT!

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  89. I fail to see how asking someone to meet for coffee and then getting suspicious when they keep making excuses or ignoring such requests can be considered to be intimidating.
    It is not only the GSD supporters who r outraged at the manner in which the Politiqueo group was closed down but of course some hardened GSLP supporters now feel the need to distort the facts by brandishing conspiracy theories.

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  90. Conspiracy theories?

    Mark has been investigated by this administration. The instigators of the coffee referred to him not being on the register of electors. The register isn't complete yet, so how would they know?
    They alleged he wasn't a resident either, how would they know this without accessing records that aren't available to Joe Bloggs on the street?
    If I were Mark, I too would be clearing off, as fast as my feet could carry me.

    There is more to this that meets the eye!

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  91. I think we have flogged the Mark Ashbey matter to death ...

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  92. have we Robert? do you not think the GSD is out to silence the voices of dissent?
    I think we are fighting for liberty here!

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  93. Ernest if they had been LIES as you so adequately state I doubt Robert (who was on this same group) would have allowed the publishing of such comments.

    Please note I took print shots of everything as I could foresee what was to come and have other people who can also vouch for me.

    Maybe you did not perceive these comments to be so but I (as others) did. Just because the group is no longer there does not mean there is no proof.

    I am surprised that an intelligent individual such as yourself would allow himself to be so easily led. I hope you are now proud that your “witch hunt” has paid dividends.

    I know your judgment is clouded as you do not like me, but please stop and think for one moment. Venga ya Ernest don’t be stubborn, we are all human and far from infallible!

    K

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  94. Robert,
    the Mark Ashbey matter is beyond Mark Ashbey.

    The GSD have turned this into a circus by blaming the GSLP of pre-meditated fraud, in their usual style of throwing mud and lies until it sticks, regardless of the people they hurt in the process. They have turned a situation which was working against them into a conspiracy of underhand plots to undermine them.
    They have 'managed' this situation, and vilified an innocent person who has seen fit to disappear for fear of the fore-warned repercussions every voice of dissent risks when speaking openly against our Government.


    Freedom of speech is at stake here, so perhaps this matter needs all the flogging it can get!

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  95. I echo 11.01, 10.47 and Kaelan's sentiments. I do not feel that this is an issue that can now fall to the wayside considering the GSD's shameful stance. Hopefully another brave individual will take it upon himself to start another similar group on Facebook where a similar approach to group admission and discussion can be used. I regret that considering the events that transpired within the last group that I am reluctant to be that person as I have no desire to be subjected to the same scrutiny by the GSD "elite" as Mark Ashbey.

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  96. Having read these very lengthy posts by the GSLP hardcore I really think it is frightening the lengths that people will go to in order to decent the indefensible. I am only pleased that Kaelan is a key player in this ridiculous defence. Says a great deal.

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  97. What is indefensible 12:31?

    Mark Ashbey has not been proven to be a false account.

    GSD supporters on the group made that assumption after they supposedly went looking through the voters register, it seems that they may well have egg on their face now (although they were careful to rely on the inferences made by others and they didn't make any explicit accusations of their own volition).

    Perhaps he closed the group because he was nonetheless uncomfortable with being subjected to such close scrutiny, and also as he already mentioned before having closed the group the demands of moderating it had become overwhelming.

    Finally Politqueo wasn't a GSLP propaganda device, it was a group in which individuals from all political parties were welcome to share their views, the difference being that aside from one or two contributors GSD supporters were genreally reluctant to parcipate in debate. Although certain GSLP supporters did express the view that they felt those not living in Gibraltar are entiled to have their say within the group, but that their opinion held less merit than that of a local person (a mindset with which I don't agree), only one GSLP supporter to my knowledge demonstrated the dissapointing stance that no non-local should have any say within the group. At no point did any member curtail or stifle the opinions of any GSD/PDP/GSLP supporters. It's a shame the group had to be closed down as I enjoyed the many discussions had there.

    I write all of the above as a PDP supporter.

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  98. anon @ 12:31, I see you too use the 'vilify & ridicule' GSD method of defence!
    Remember that that you are able to do this comfortably behind your cloak of anonymity and safe in the knowledge that you won't get investigated, others have not been so lucky!

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  99. Anon 12:31 what defence?

    K

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  100. elite? what elite?

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  101. People, facts are facts, how you choose to spin them is up to you. Mark Ashbey does not exist and he has admitted it. The GSLP I.T guru was assisting him again confirmed by Mark Ashbey and like all other GSLP satellite groups Politiqueo was just another way of attracting people to have a GSD bash, which is all well and fine but only shows you up. The GSLP has played games with Unions, with Civil Servants and other organisations and associations all in the name of its love for Gib. Your very own new leader is caught up in serious matters that raises questions. But still you are blindly in denial doing and spin and spin and spin. Que manera. Like I said it's comforting to know that K is a key player in the spinning defence, says a great deal, given the bull we have endured from him over the past 12 months.

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  102. where has mark ashbey admitted that he doesn't exist and that the GSLP's IT guru was helping him?

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  103. 16:16, please provide this proof and these facts for everyone to see. I don't mean this facetiously, as an outsider I simply wasn't privy as to whether it has actually been said by Mark Ashbey, or whether it's just conjecture on your part.

    Thanks.

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  104. anon@16:20
    its just another GSD sweeping statement without substance, its usually full of mud so beware!

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  105. Anon @ 16:16
    The group was wound up yesterday afternoon, before this he said nothing of the kind. He has since deactivated his Facebook account, so unless you know him personally or you know who's pretending to be him, you are inventing this purely for scaremongering purposes!

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  106. anon @ 16:16
    please feel free to list all the associations and the organisations the GSLP is playing games with, that's after you reveal Ashbey's confession that is.

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  107. A quick google search using the appropiate keywords will show that Mark Ashbey does indeed exist and that he is connected to Gibraltar.

    Oh dear.

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  108. Mark Ashbey never admitted he did not exist. We all assumed this was so as he refused to engage with Ellul-Hammond.

    I have since come upon information that indicates otherwise.

    When a potential GSD candidate goes on to state that she has gone through the trouble to look you up in the register of electors, I guess it could prove daunting.

    In my humble opinion Mark got “spooked” when he realized he was way over his head and “legged it” whilst he still could.

    Anon 16:16

    I’m not trying to “spin” anything I am merely stating facts. Facts that can incidentally be backed up by members of many different parties including GSD supporters.

    I find it amusing that you have the cheek to comment on events that you never saw unfold.

    Ignorance is bliss, I guess....

    Ps - Marks letters to the editor have been published by both the Panorama and Chronicle in the past.


    K

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  109. I think that Mr. K. Joyce's statement that "Mark Ashbey never admitted he did not exist" must rank as one of the most challenging existentialist conundrums that I have ever come across. Ths further comment that Mr. Joyce has "since come upon information that indicates otherwise" is enough to exhaust any normal brain. Respect and thanks to Mr. Joyce.

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  110. Let Gibraltar as a whole decide on who came out of the whole 'Politiqueo' debacle smelling of roses.

    Mr Gomez, agreed, that was pretty funny but it's good to see that a contributor is able to back up his claims with solid facts as opposed to resorting to desperate scaremongering.

    I guess certain people were too hasty in dismissing K as a joke.

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  111. Que shulo ere Gomez!!

    It seems like I am a popular character indeed even Charlie Gomez has found the time to have a “go” at me!! The Infamous Special K!! De aqui a hollywood! :P

    Charlie me rey let me explain.

    First statement: “Mark Ashbey never admitted he did not exist" was in response to an anon stating that “Mark” had admitted he was a fictional character a pseudo name and not a REAL person as such. Mark never did this hence my comments.

    Second statement: "since come upon information that indicates otherwise", what I meant by "otherwise" was that I had proof that Mark Ashbey did indeed exist and was a REAL person.

    I guess you have misinterpreted my comments. : )

    On a final note let me suggest that next time before ridiculing my comments you find the time to have a good long hard look in the mirror. The comments made by you in behalf of the evangelical alliance in regards to the new age of consent laws for homosexuals had me in tears......of laughter!

    And I quote "for thousands of years, buggery has been proscribed." "Sodomy is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord".

    Such comments are certainly not befitting of the modern world that we live in and neither is the biblical undertone which they seem to carry. Your “stone age” mentality has certainly done you no favours in the eyes of many.

    Furthermore I found it quite offensive that you had the audacity to vehemently protest the new legislation that would ensure that homosexual men would no longer be discriminated against. Such actions indicated disdain for their very basic human rights. Who cares right? Nama son gay. Valiente poca verguensa.

    In conclusion CHALI there will be many who will think “valiente shaulara escribi el ninio Joyce este” but believe me there are also a fair few that think the exact same thing about you.

    K :)

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  112. Charles Gomez.16 May 2011 at 22:15

    Kaelan Joyce, sir, thanks for your kind words. Believe it or don't I actually do enjoy your contributions and share your patriotism. But please consider this: when I appeared as counsel for the Evangelical Alliance in the Age of Consent case I believed, and still do, that my clients and I were actually championing the rights of young homosexual men. The right to protection against diseases associated with buggery being the most important. We referred the court to a BMA report which found that more than 1/3 of male HIV / AIDS sufferers had contracted the disease through anal intercourse before they were 20. The biblical references were made in the context of my clients' legal standing in the procedings and to set out the principal basis on which they had an interest in the proceedings. As a Christian representing a Christian organisation I make no apology for that. Put another way I believe that far from being disdainful of the rights of young gays my clients and I were very much propelled by the desire to defend that most basic right - the right to life. Piensatelo bien K and do n't be taken in by the weasel words and hypocrisy of those who ruthlessly exploit so called liberalism as a means of obtaining easy popularity. ;)

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  113. Charles I guess you do raise valid points. Things are not always black and white it seems but shades of grey.

    Personally I believe that the age of consent should be 18 for all. But I also adhere to the Ley pa uno, ley pa todos mentallity.

    I shall take heed of such stated advice as it may well do me some good. : )

    Ta

    K :)

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  114. JODER!!! In a few sentences Charles Gomez has completely changed my mind about the age of consent. His plain speaking shows why a lot of people think he is in a league of his own among the learned barristocrats. I agree with his comment about easy popularity. Everyone repeats what they think we l want to hear. Buena Chali!

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  115. "Gibraltarian Realities" on Facebook is a GSD supporter by the name of Daniel Bula. He writes the GSD fanpage on FB which includes such wonderful lines as the GSD being the "party of purity" and alleging that the other parties would involve Gibraltar in drug trafficking. It seems the GSD propaganda machine is well on the way to scraping the barrell, and coming up with some pathetic and ludicrous allegations on the way. Like a cornered rat, the GSD will lash out and anyone and anything as it sees itself heading for an electoral defeat.

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  116. Charles Gomez has not changed my mind one iota ref the age of consent. The Evangelical Alliance's attempts to stop equalisation have nothing to do with medical reasons (that is just a smokescreen) and everything to do with the Church's teachings that homosexuality is evil. Anyone who believes that, or defends that point of view, has no place in our Parliament. Let's hope that if Gomez runs for election again he loses his deposit, just like last time.

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  117. Tango Delta: what is your view on the medical evidence that a large proportion of young gay men get HIV AIDS when under the age of 18? I am also interested about your suggston that people who believe Christian teachings has no place in "our" Parliament. Shold be illegaise Christianity?

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  118. All, please be aware... Facebook is being monitored by the establishment... the Big Hairy Hand will approach you and slap you down... they will get personal.
    No wonder ppl have to post anonymously!

    So much for a free and democratic Gibraltar.
    GSD: Dictatorship!!!

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  119. Anonymous...the notion that because a "large proportion" (figure?) of gay men get HIV AIDS when they are under 18, we should criminlaise gay sex at that age is ridiculous. Gay men (and indeed straight ones) can get HIV AIDS at any time in their lives. It has everything to do with sexual behaviour and nothing to do with age. I suspect the Evangelical Alliance have interpreted the medical "evidence" to suit their own needs. As regards "illegalising" Christianity - no, I believe faith is a personal matter. Because I believe it is personal, I do not think that people who regard our homosexuals as evil deviants should be allowed to impose those medieval views by being given a position of authority in our community.

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  120. Cucumberbear now tells you...

    I have just had a look at the Gib Govt Website and in particular at the press release with regard to Fabian Picardo's recent television interview.

    I find it astonishing and embarrassing that this release can have the blessing of the Chief Minister who is also the Minister of Finance.

    At the very least the nomenclatures should be appropriate to describe what it is the Govt sees as its right to make inappropriate pronouncements, and to add insult to injury, let us not forget misusing public money in the process.

    The Govt accuses Fabian Picardo of "Fronting" the Mexican failure.

    The Govt does not understand that it does not understand.

    "Fronting" implies underwriting an issue.

    An issue is the conversion of private equity to public ownership via a flotation.

    An individual cannot carry out a flotation.

    A flotation is carried out and underwritten by an Issuing House.

    An Issuing House is an institution such as a Merchant Bank or a firm of Stockbrokers and not a person.

    A firm of lawyers is not an issuing house.

    Nor is a partner in a firm of lawyers an Issuing House either.

    Therefore no firm of lawyers or any partner in a law firm can "front" anything.

    But the word "front" also has another meaning..

    = "CAROTA"...which everyone reading here will understand.

    One example of this use of "front" is the pronouncement by my friend Ernest Britto explaining that the replacing of the sand eroded on the East Side is an EXPERIMENT.

    We, the electorate, would like to know how much this experiment has burdened the public purse and under whose authority this Govt takes the liberty of carrying out stupid and futile experiments.

    In the same way that this Govt takes repeated liberties that it justifies as decisions.

    The great majority of decisions taken by this Govt have been extremely costly, ill concieved and ultimately futile.

    The electorate is beginning to wake up.

    I am willing to wager the electorate will boot out this Govt at the next election.

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