For decades now Gibraltar has been plagued by rumours that corruption and bribery is rife in public life. The reality is that no one has been prosecuted, let alone convicted of any crime in any way connected with this type of behaviour (that I recall anyway). Rumours of this type are destructive and give Gibraltar a negative image. They give Gibraltar generally and public life in Gibraltar, specifically, a bad name. That being the case it has always struck me as odd that politicians and governments over the years have not wanted to do anything to dispel these negative and destructive rumours.
The problem/issue of corruption was recognised in Hong Kong as long ago as 1974. On the 15th February of that year the then Governor of Hong Kong, Murray MacLehose, established the Independent Commission against Corruption. Admittedly the situation that reigned in Hong Kong at that time was very different in that corruption was rife and it was known to be rife. This is not the case in Gibraltar.
The situation in Gibraltar is different. The situation here is that we are plagued with rumours "de buena tinta". The reality is that there is no proof of any wrongdoing. It is all borne of a culture of "wink wink nudge nudge" we all know what is happening but lets not rock the boat. However, this is by far the best reason why Gibraltar should have a similar Commission to establish once and for all that these rumours have no foundation.
Undoubtedly there are already common law and statutory offences covering crimes of both bribery and corruption. The responsibility of investigating such offences falls on the Royal Gibraltar Police (RGP). The reality is that the RGP are already overly burdened with all types of other more in ones face crimes. Corruption and bribery require a more specialist type of investigation, a more focussed look. It would also be wise to revise existing laws and ensure that they are brought up to date and meet international standards. This is presently happening in the UK.
It would be ideal to have a commission of the type established in Hong Kong which would need to be fully staffed and have full investigative powers. It would receive and investigate confidential complaints. It would be entitled to investigate of its own motion. Over a period of time it would establish definitively that no corruption existed in Gibraltar. Alternatively it may find that the rumours are not unfounded, as I believe them to be. In the latter eventuality the transgressors would need to be delat with appropriately and prosecuted.
In short it would be a win win for all. Greater faith in public servants and ministers would be instilled as the destructive effects of rumours are dispelled. If any transgressor are found, faith would be restored in the establishment by cutting out any such despicable behaviour. I can see no downside for government, public servants or the public in general arising from the establishment of such an independent anti corruption commission.
Robert, interesting to see how many political parties and businesses agree with you !
ReplyDeleteThis independent commission would be really good as it would hold politicians and businessmen to account. One important thing to note : No politician can be corrupt without a corrupt businessman ! Y hay mucho mas de lo ultimo.
I have just watched Talk About Town and am completely appalled and incensed by the obvious and inherent sexism that has just taken place. Following the piece written in the Chronic regarding Andlaw's remarks, the programmes' (note correct spelling) panel have only gone and made things worse. Not only have they publicy patronised Joelle (who wrote the piece) by implying that she should grow up and learn not to take things so personally, she was even accused (by the condescending Mr Bentata) of making "hitlerite" comments. What utter garbage. Talk about bullying from the comfort of your studio seat!!
ReplyDeleteHow can GBC endorse the opinions of the likes of Bentata and Andlaw by having them on the panel???? I am truly ashamed to have witnessed all of this.
More upsetting still was Odette's response. What verbal diarrhoea!!! As a woman, I feel totally let down by her. Has she not understood anything??
She has undermined the feminist cause completely. She waited, grinning like a Cheshire cat, and then joined in by agreeing with her sexist colleagues. Poor show.
As for Richard, to seek to share the blame for Andlaw's comments is inexcusable. No one is responsible for the comments made by others. If the truth be told Richard clearly enjoys Andlaw's sexist remarks, failing the guts to make them himself. Shame on you too Richard.
GBC needs to scrap this programme if it seeks to retain any professional integrity. Or at least replace every single member of the panel.
These underlying sexist comments have been taking place on this programme for many years now, let's not pretend this is the first time, and let's certainly not call it a "storm in a tea cup"!!!!
The programme has little going for it - it is superficial, sexist and not even moderately entertaining. What mediocrity we have learned to accept.
What is Alan King's opinion I wonder?
Anonymous at 23:20
ReplyDeleteI agree with you wholeheartedly and would only add that the same happened a few weeks ago with racist comments made against Gibraltar's Moroccan community.
This programme would be totally unacceptable for broadcasting in other jurisdictions.
Alan King where are you?
anon at 23.20:
ReplyDeleteI completely agree, and speaking of politics and corruption, although not in the monetary sense, que casualidad que lo panellists de talk about town son todo pro-GSD, or at least they seem to be as fortnight after fortnight, all they do is defend Government's shortcomings with the odd criticism here and there thrown in de verguenza!
Its time to retire the dinosaurs.
A typical remark that comes to mind is: 'cuando el rio suena'... or 'ese calla porque algo esconde' and so on.
ReplyDeleteI think this rumour nature may be symptomatic of the lack a transparency in the way matters are dealt with locally or so it seems.
Whatever the case, the setting up of an Independent Commission against Corruption can only be good for all.
El que no tenga nada que esconder que abra las manos..., digo yo.
Así que por lo que a mí respecta… bring on the commissions and roll up the sleeves!
Ya esta, ya paga el GSD por lo que dicen en Talk about Town !! I am a GSD supporter, I rarely watch Talk about Town. I find it totally cringworthy at the best of times & downright offensive the rest of the time!
ReplyDeleteDoes any one know how much the financial services commission CEO earns?
ReplyDeleteI have been told he is in the region of 280k,Could that be true?
How can Gib sustain such salaries?GHA CEO 120K Alan King 100+k Marcus Killick ???? Isn't there any talent in Gib for these posts either???
D
Perhaps a letter (email) feedback@gbc.gi writing campaign to Mr King is warranted.
ReplyDeleteSurely we should want to raise GBC's standard.
Democracy in action, señoras y señores a escribir.
Or is it that there may be more racism and sexism than we care to know?
D
ReplyDeleteMany Llanito professionals earn well over 100k, even though I don't like paying ex-pats tons of tax payees money, sometimes it is appropriate, particularly in the FCS and other posts that we simply do not have the contacts and knowledge. We need to implement systems, gain experience with these guys and then take over, that is constantly happening.... It's the right way in my humble opinion.
GBC is, and has always been, inherently sexist (this I know of good tint). The appointment of Alan King has done nothing to eradicate this. I for one feel compelled to write to GBC to raise my warranted concerns with them. Clearly Mr King has already failed in a very fundamental duty to the public. His reaction to tonight's programme will only redeem him if he stamps out the institutionalized prejudice that thrives in his Corporation.
ReplyDeleteI will join Francis Buttigieg in a letter writing campaign.
A society can be judged by the way it treats its women. If not, take a look at the Arab countries!
ReplyDeleteAnon 2354
ReplyDeleteFair point,But there are simply too many ex-pats filling jobs that don't require the contacts that you say about.When i refer to those that earn in excess of 100k i am talking about public money, i am not considering those in the public sector.
GHA HR Manager 80K.No one here that can do the job?
GHA Nursing Chief 90K????
Food for thought or is it better to buy puppets abroad and once they break they are easier to dispose of???
D
I am still reeling from the shock of having seen the antics of the TAT panel. The vicious public attack on Joelle, an individual who was merely defending her rights, was deplorable. I hope that the people at the top come out and condemn this outrageous display.
ReplyDeleteSurely Mr Anlaw also has rights to defend himself from an aggressive caller, having said that he kept quite and let the caller expose her argument...and insults...
ReplyDeleteRobert,
ReplyDeleteThere are qualified staff with experience if not just swallow this,Lab manager PHd) that reports to HR manager (ex-pat) Thats one example.
We Gibraltarians that work abroad don't normally work in an environment were we report to ministers unfortunately we are not that privileged or that good elsewhere so let us be good in our homeland!
The best Hr Manager in Gib Is Mr Sisarello from Unite!
D
Throw enough muck and some will stick. The sad thing is that with so much 'silk' around it can be used to cover, or as a smooth wipe. Why do we, as Gibraltarians, always fight shy of the truth por si algo del muck sticks in foreign parts? The Mother of Parliaments is receiving a right-royal wipe yet many are still economical with the truth. Se lo pasan por el forro, silk or cotton, lo mismo les da! Lo de GBC, generally, es una poquisima verguenza. El King, not Larry, parece estar mas paseado quel va-y-ven de La Linea a Gibraltar, when we had to go the long way round to get to los cacharritos de la feria. (Not some families you may remember!)Why, in the name of truth, do we have to put up with such 'persons'? I believe I know why. Porque our English British brethren need a couple of years to get to know the 'scene', once they've managed to spin[sic] themselves out of the cocktail circuit and start to understand the Gibraltarian British and our ways. Remember, pliss, we are all servants of the Crown. We are as canny as they, yet ellos van pisando huevos and getting to know what cousin Peter is really up to, or what he wants. He seems awfully good at throwing his toys out of the pram if he doesn't get what he wants, either by unctuous persuasion or by tacit bullying. By that time, they've either 'swung' in the same Macaque pack or they've been sent packing, either through boredom or because they know too much! The minute we hear the words "Now, look!" or "Let me make it perfectly clear!", (both in the imperative),se me revuelve el tuetano and we all need to be be very concerned. Hay otro trompo en juego with more spin que Mandy en el U.K. (Ese tiene de Lord lo que tengo yo de estampita de Santa Teresita!) And with so many people around our Gibraltar que estan mas raspado que la espalda de un violin, Bado's building will be made to look more like Buck House before the 11th. of October, which falls between Thanksgiving Day in Canada y el Dia de la Raza en Mexico. (The latter day is also a full moon, so who would be baying at it, one wonders?) Estamos todos hasta las narizes. Start handing out the clothes-pegs because it won't be long before the dooh-doohs hit the fan y va a haber mas peste que en Puente Mayorga or Western Beach. Mark my words, all this is going to make Messrs. 10% look tame in comparison!
ReplyDeleteJesulin el Insulin de Patuca. x x x
Anon 00.33
ReplyDeleteAs far as I saw the public attack was from Joelle, she has rights but so do the rest, she cannot expect to put her thoughts across the way she did and for the TAT panel to keep quite when she made direct accusations and insults. Ella se paso tambien.
How did a page on bribery and corruption immediately end up discussing sexism? There is already good legislation on corruption and the police have several files gathering dust at New Mole House Police Station. Maybe HM Inspector of Constabulary should be asked whether it is right that all these cases should kicked in the long grass. It does seem an extraordinary coincidence.
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that whenever the Government decides to place a tender for a project ( eg leisure centre, airport etc).
ReplyDeleteThese projects always end up costing the tax payer approximately 100% over the predicted estimated costs.
Surely whoever calculates the estimated costs for these Government projects appears to constantly make mistakes.
I'm sure if I were working for a company and predicted the costs of projects and went 100% over budget in most cases, my balls would be on the line.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteCaruana will be remembered for all the things he has and is doing to the LOCAL community, his dictatorial system prohibit anyone to be acquainted with what goes\on behind close doors, despite his promises of accountability, clarity etc.
How good it must feel to be unafraid to say what you believe and echo what so many Gibraltarians citizens know is true (“why do we agree to be friends with the enemies of freedom)”
We appear to be sleepwalking towards the destruction of what we hold dearest – our precious freedom without of interference from the chief Minister and our Government.
The Government agenda is to ensure maximum control over every aspect of our lives must stop.
The only way to do this in a free society is to ensure those who aim to stand for election to condemn the unethical dictatorial system employed by the Chief Minister PRC.
The cost of living is going up and will double if not treble in the five years and only foreigners, local rich with homes and Villas in Spain, and the Government new rich AMIGOS will be able to afford it in gibraltar, the majority of our community will be poorer and poorer and unable to maintain a reasonable way of life in Gibraltar.
PLEASE THINK AND VOTE FOR CHANGE. I WILL VOTE FOR PEOPLE LIKE ROBERT VASQUEZ WHO HAS INTRODUCED SOME SORT OF LIVE BACK INTO OUR LIFELESS SOCIETY WITH HIS COMMITMENT IN HIS BLOG. GOD BLESS YOU RV.
1704
D
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I prefer to have a qualified nurse from Gibraltar with experience to be chief nurse, but do we have one ? The last local chief nurse I remember was not qualified. You assume people we employ from abroad are puppets, I hope other countries don't think that of gibraltarians that work abroad.
I thought that last night's Talk About Town made it 2 Thursday's in a row for GBC where they actually put out some interesting programming! TAT started off slowly, gathered momentum with a good interview with Danny Feetham and then reached "Salvame Deluxe" levels of squabbling over something of little consequence. Excellent entertainment, I can only hope that next week's Viewpoint matches the recent high standard of output. :)
ReplyDeleteSeriously, one may not agree with Mr Andlaw's opinion but he is entitled to hold it and he certainly does not deserve to be vilified for it. Tolerance, good sense and a balanced respect for others' views, politically correct and not as politically correct, are important for a healthy society.
Back on topic, a Commission against Corruption would be a good idea. It would of course need to be completely autonomous, have carte blanche to investigate all public departments, dealings and officials... the power to actually do things as well as being seen to be doing things.
Sorry to deviate from the topic at hand but yesterday I was at the Western Beach Demonstration and the Minister of the Environment was nowhere to be seen, even though Graham Watson (liberal Democrat) MEP was there. I also happened to see Fabian Picardo and Kieth Azzopardi. Why was this? Can anyone justify such complacency? I even heard someone say "Y el ministro?" And it was hard to argue otherwise...... K
ReplyDeleteBy Kaelan Joyce
Hi LLanito World,
ReplyDeleteyet again an interesting topic and one worthy of debate, but yet again posters (Kaelan for example) turn this into a GSD vs GSLP issue and veer way off the mark.
if comments were kept on point and the real issues germaine to the blog debated then I for one would participate a lot more. I am not interested in debating the greatness of one party over another.
most of the
Off-subject again, of course everyone is entitled to hold and express their views, whomever they may offend; the question here is whether panelists in a programme on a public service broadcaster (e.g. on TAT, on GBC) are in such a privileged position that those freedoms do not apply to them to the same extent as they do to the general public.
ReplyDeleteJust read the comical Govt Surprised by Mass Exit of Workers.
ReplyDeleteFor the general public to know each worker who is will be given the exit package that Caruana has unilaterally agreed to pay is the following:
1) Gratuity average per worker equals £100,000 2) Average £18,000 per annum of pension at the age of 60.
If I where in the Buildings and Works I would sign the agreement immediately.
Begs the question Did the govt believe that they would not get the exit package?
Who will now pay for all this which will cost around £100,000 x 50 = £5,000,000
Plus a pension of aorund £18,000 x 50 =£900,000 per annum.
Can this be considered irresponsible governance? or Could it be consdiered bribing workers?
So can anyone from the GSD explain how their government can give these amounts of taxpayers money to people who have benn classified by themselves??? can we please have an answer??
Simple answer K. The Govt and minister are taking the matter up with the European Court, have already done extensive investigations and are in communication with the EsG on the matter regularly. scoring political points does not rank high on this Govts list, something that your freind fab is a genius at, amongst other things.
ReplyDeleteAnon 14:05
ReplyDelete"but yet again posters (Kaelan for example) turn this into a GSD vs GSLP issue and veer way off the mark." WTF?? I belong to neither of those political fractions! I merely stated an opinion! Please take note that I also mentioned Keith Azzopardi in the same posting.
Anon 16:48
Thank you for enlightening me, though I still believe the Minister of the Environment should have attended. After all he does get paid to make his presence “felt” at such events (amongst other things) or does he not? Especially events which are well supported and attended by UK MEP’s. His failure to attend looked bad (maybe even complacent??).
Enough on the matter though, this topic is indeed worthy of debate (Anon 14:05 has a point)and we should stick to it. :)
K
respect to the egyptians
ReplyDeletethat's what all these politicians fear
the true will and interest of the people
not there own or their party
To anon 10th Feb 23:20. If anyone is speaking out of their given back side it appears to be you. Your reasoning on this issue which more if a storm In a tea cup is absolutely dumbfounded. Quite clearly you are incapable of accepting anyones opinion unless it complies with what is quite obviously a rigid feminist attitude.
ReplyDeleteTo then attack Odette Benata is the icing on the cake from a spiteful and sad individual.
Weekend wonder says
ReplyDeleteUK Expat managers shouldn't be bashed just because they are not from here. If they can bring their skills and experience to Gibraltar we can all benefit, and hopefully we locals can get the experience required to take over when the time comes. Having a PhD (SNAILS) does not necessarily mean you have skills in HR. Interestingly enough there are Gibraltarians working abroad in HEALTH HR who might be better placed to take on these roles now or in the future. GoG should make an effort to stay in touch with Gibraltarians abroad so that we can repatriate the expertise that we invested in (assuming of course that the our expats want to return...many do not).
That said the cynic in me sometimes wonders whether a tactic of our present Government is to buy its way out of trouble with tax payers money. Whereas our FSC might be "independent", appointments are made by PRC - that is true for the CEO of GBC, FSC, GHA. 240k+ 150k+, 120k+ tax free. With these sorts of salaries are they really going to rock the boat when PRC interferes and prevents them from doing their jobs? Is it Mr King's fault that he seems to have achieved exactly nothing, more than a year since the GBC review which promised “The re-launch [of GBC] will take place on a specific date (to be decided) during 2010.” Or has Mr King not being permitted to act as CEO because there is another CEO – PRC.
Then you take the Building and Works example. Hefty pay rises delivered with the private sectors hard earned taxes. This on top of the nobody-will-be-made-redundant-even-if-your-job-is-redundant MOD deals our wise Government have negotiated. OK FINE, nobody wants to lose their job, but is it in Gibraltar’s wider interest for the PRESENT administration to guarantee a persons employment when that employment ceases to be relevant? That person already on EXCELLENT terms – with pensions. CLEARLY, we’ve got the cash to spend NOW. But is it responsible to spend it in this way? Are we building a debt mountain for future years. Is it easier to win elections if you can pay off the voters – ok that last point was very cynical but HONESTLY – I sometimes gawp about people who salivate on about PRC’s fantastic negotiating skills? If you ask me his negotiating tactic is to PAYOUT PAYOUT PAYOUT. After his performance in Seville some might add SELLOUT.
Weekend wonder continues
ReplyDeleteAnd to the poster who wrote that Mr Sisarello is the best HR manager Gib has ever seen. You know honestly I think the Union has lost its way. We have had a string of successive union leaders progress from the Union to the Government. I do not think that the Unions role is to extract as much cash from Government as they can. It is to defend workers rights. Current workers, future workers, private sector and public. The GHA “Agenda-for-Cash” was supposed to replicate the wide ranging “Agenda-for Change” of the NHS some years ago. To provide EQUITY to workers and ensure that SALARY was commensurate with RESPONSIBILITY. The GHA is AWASH with inequity – with janitors on £35k Clericals (typists) on £25k and medical professionals on £20k or less. None of these inequities were tackled in the “Agenda-for-Cash”. Nor have GoG delivered the sorts of reforms that will impact on Service Users – the most important people in the equation. In my view far from being something to celebrate the Agenda-for-Cash is a failure – and it is a failure which is typical of this administration’s handling of labour relations and a Union who seem curiously blinkered in negotiating style. A fairs days wage for a fair days work.
Minister Britto at a demo? Do you really expect a Government Minister to attend a public gathering where they are not handing out ribbons or running the show? Of course not. Our Ministers have long since forgotten that they are publicly voted MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT and REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PEOPLE FIRST AND FOREMOST, and Government appointed Ministers second. Have you ever heard of a member of Government holding a surgery as member of parliament – no way. They consider themselves only to be members of Government. That said – if the current opposition crop get in, we can expect more of the same from them. Why bother to turn up to a public discussion programme being a recent but significant example.
Anti corruption tribunal – great idea I suppose, but not a substitute for a general rules that ALL public administration should be carried out in PUBLIC unless the Government of the day present a specific and justifiable reason for it to be private. The much discussed 11 millions should be information that is automatically in the public domain – not just something that is extracted in parliament long after then money is spent. The recipient of any sum of Government money or public property (think the land for the midtown, Kingswharf,) should be automatically public information. Developers should not be permitted to negotiate deals on public land in private (luxury hotel at Nuffield pool? Dolphin pond at Rosia). GSD sycophants can shot “ombudsman” “consumer protection” – come on people- the ombudsmen is to watchdog, what toothless sheep is to vicious. Just compare out ombudsman’s statutory frame work with other small jurisdictions. What do you expect I suppose from a Government that has publicly, and even proudly, announced that tendering shall be no more, and Government will dole out construction work by direct allocation as fast as you can say JBS-is-the-only-way-to-keep-these-projects-moving-and-save-our-political-skins.
Ah well it is the weekend after all.
L.E.F.
ReplyDeleteBoth last weeks Viewpoint and yesterdays Talk About Town just reinforces my view that the time for change is long overdue.
We owe it to ourselves as a society to break this rotten mould that has been set.
This is a cry to all Gibraltarians. GSD ,GSLP. PDP, INDEPENDENTS to all of us LLANITOS.
We are a community long ago split in 2 . Mr Bossano started the process of dividing our population and Mr Caruana has made sure we remain divided to this day.
Unfortunately we have continuously fallen for it Hook, Line and Sinker because we are blinded by both Caruana and Bossano.
Either you vote Bossano in to chuck Caruana out or you vote Caruana in to keep Bossano out.
Its not we vote Bossano because we believe in him, or we vote Caruana because we are truly convinced.
If Mr Bossano had bowed down from politics after any of his many electoral defeats , Gibraltar most probably would have already voted for change.
We Gibraltarians have voted for change in the past when a credible alternative of new faces has been presented to the electorate or when we have all been united on a crucial issue.
That is how both of them got into power in the first place.
Well the crucial issue is here and now and we know what it is. It is the lack of transparency and democracy we were promised way back in 1996. Worse than that is to go back to 1988.
Remember Bossano was the inventor of the style of government we have today , Caruana learnt from him and has now mastered it to near perfection.
Shame on you both for the farce which is our Parliament . Dignity ? Where is it ?
Enough is enough. Lets demand what we expect of the people who lead us.
Both TV programmes remind us of what is in store for the next 4 years if we are not brave enough to embrace change as we have done in the past.
We have to believe in ourselves that change is truly possible.
Gandhi quote:
An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.
Anon 19.20
ReplyDeleteReally good peace... But what option do we really have ?
We cannot deny that the GSD have done a great service to Gibraltar, it is also true that they have made mistakes, but then who doesn't. What we have to really do is choose with what we have available. GSLP led by Picardo in my view is simply dangerous for reasons known, PDP led by Azopardi could be an option....and would maybe continue in the path of the GSD but with new blood... And if they stick to their election promise they would be in government for no more than two terms. Interesting...worth considering.
100,000 in gratuity and 18000 in pension per annum . perhaps someone can tell me how you work that out . seems a lot to me . and yes i for that money would also have signed the agreement
ReplyDeleteNorbert V. Borge says:
ReplyDeletePart 1
Anonymous at 10.15, you say
I am not sure how to interpret your brief statement What are you trying to say? Are you saying that a Gibraltarian nurse is substandard? Are you saying that a Gibraltarian nurse is substandard unless ‘qualified’? What do you mean by ‘qualified’?’ Qualified’ by whose standards? If so, are those standards the best for Gibraltar? I believe you need to talk to our local nursing staff and clarify the above points. I certainly have done so for many years and continue to discuss the above issues with them very frequently. At the end of the day, I was born in Gibraltar and will depart from this life cared for by nurses employed by Gibraltar and I have a vested interest in making sure that I am well cared for.
With respect to the nursing staff in Gibraltar and employed within the GHA, in my opinion they are second to none be it in the UK or Spain or anywhere. I am proud to have worked with them for 29 years and would not change them for anyone else. Every nurse must be valued valued for their qualities. A ‘qualification’ does not equate with superiority. As far as I am concerned the concept of UK qualification is only of use if the individual wishes to practice to the UK. The overwhelming majority of our nursing staff have no desire to work there. I am afraid that you unfortunately err in equating ‘qualification’ with intelligence, capability integrity, friendship and compassion.
Of course I want a Gibraltarian as ‘local chief nurse’. There are many excellent candidates currently within the Gibraltarian nursing staff who will do ample justice to such an appointment. If you equate local Gibraltarian nursing staff as the equivalent of ' brown-eyed natives' as opposed to the UK or Spanish nursing staff, then you are very sadly mistaken. The great majority of Gibraltarian nurses have the ability and potential to be trained to the highest level to be found in the UK and Spain. What is clear to me that Gibraltar is a rather unique place and Gibraltarian nurses have a special niche and certainly an clear advantage over expatriates if only just because of our community ties and resultant implications.
Very briefly I believe we have to encourage the progression of Gibraltarian nursing staff to the top levels within the GHA, increase local recruitment of nursing staff and give them 100 % support to achieve the highest standards that Gibraltar needs and additionally reduce our heavy dependence on expatriates. I certainly do not believe that ‘absolute and blind’ adherence to a UK or a Spanish nursing standard is what is best for Gibraltar. It may well be that a tailor made nursing curriculum for Gibraltar is what is required. Such a curriculum would run side by side and complementing the so much valued (by some) UK qualification.
Norbert v Borge says:
ReplyDeletePart 2
I also have to say that expatriates imported for a specific job have to be judged on their merits, achievements and compatibility with Gibraltarians and Gibraltarian life. If satisfactory, then they are kept on until no longer required, and their contracts terminated. Some of them will become part of our society and are welcomed and accepted as Gibraltarians. What I for one do not want is an expatriate with no lasting or true interest in Gibraltar to mould Gibraltarians in their perceived image which may not be what is best for us. Certainly no expatriate is to be prejudged and they have the same right to respect as anyone. Their record will speak for them and it is up to Gibraltar to decide whether to keep them on.
As to Gibraltarians working abroad, I have no knowledge of what the majority of our’ exports’ are doing with their lives. Certainly many of them are successful and they are alas probably lost for ever. I can tell you that one individual who comes to mind right now is one of the CEOs of Marconi. I am pretty sure that Marconi do not think him a fool as he was poached from another company (and hopefully not a puppet) if he is kept on! Ask Marconi.
In summary, we should be proud of our Gibraltarian nursing staff ( PAST and PRESENT) and should very actively encourage and support our Gibraltarian nursing staff to achieve professional excellence so as do away with the need to import expatriates. On a personal note and without meaning to be invidious to any of the past or present nursing staff I point out one individual currently working in St Bernards Hospital. This individual clearly exemplifies 2 important points. Firstly that not only do we have such excellent nursing staff already but secondly that Gibraltar does not discrimate against expatriates.
Gibraltar is lucky to have an excellent nursing sister who would make an excellent ‘Matron’, now called Nursing Director or equivalent. None other than Sister Sue Brown in Victoria Ward. Caring, polite, intelligent, hardworking, experienced, loved by patients and staff etc etc etc. And to boot originally an expatriate from Liverpool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am glad not only that Gibraltar decided to keep her when she first arrived as a young girl but moreso that she has become part of our Gibraltrian identity and therefore a valued true Gibraltarian.
I wonder when the Women's Association is going to come out to condemn the comments and make a stand in defence of Joelle Baglietto?
ReplyDeleteI had hoped that the topic that I chose would create more debate. I imagine that one reason that it has not is because there is general agreement that having an Anti Corruption Commission cannot be a bad idea. Another is the disgrace that Talk about Town is.
ReplyDeleteI realise that the debate has been sparked off by the sexist remarks made by Louis Andlaw but what would one expect from a pre-historic thinker who has failed to advance intellectually into the 20th century let alone the 21st century. We must accept such "neanderthalism" from some people. One should not get overexcited with protecting gender discrimination from someone who are actually deserving of pity, having lived all his life to the ripe old age of his late 70's deluded by discriminatory bigoted thoughts of the type he preaches.
What is more worrying is that Richard Cartwright, the presenter and David Bentata the second guest presenter then go on to support Mr Andlaw. To boot so does Odette Benatar the only female on the programme. Worse still is that a situation that was deserving of an apology ends up with an aggravation of the situation, when Mr Andlaw confirmed his views. This aggravation must have been scripted and so approved by the director/producer of the programme and in turn, therefore, GBC. GBC is a public service broadcaster. This should never have been allowed to happen, but will heads roll? Of course not, this is Gibraltar, there is little or no accountability ... todo se deja pasar.
The reality is that, whilst this sexist remark has caused the uproar, it is not the first time that I have been appalled by the bigoted views that I have heard on Talk about Town. Not long ago the remarks that I heard about our Moroccan community left me aghast also. The rabid racial discrimination that came from the mouths of all the presenters was worthy of prosecution if Gibraltar had had the equivalent legislation to the UK.
GBC remove this disgraceful programme or revamp it ... it is a shame for Gibraltar to allow it to continue. What happened to the Governor's Guidelines, why are they not applied?
... and btw thank you the Cousin Robert remarks are most helpful to my electoral campaign, please keep it up!
Norbert v Borge
ReplyDeleteHi it's anon 10.15
Based on the fact that you have been employed by the GHA for 29 years it would be rich of me to dispute your views. It is good to hear that we do have very competent nurses in our health service. Norbert should stand for election for health, but please not with the GSLP.
Thanks for your constructive reply.
ANON 11 February 2011 19:20 well said and totally true; it's a widely shared view of maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany Gibraltarians.
ReplyDeleteThe debate on anti-corruption and bribery has been drooooooooooooowned by irrelevant pooooooooooooooooooosts. It's a specialist subject that few understand yet is a phenomenon widely accepted and tolerated as part of daily life in many countries and societies.
People should go to prison for such criminal acts for a very looooooooooooooooooong time.
L.E.F.
ReplyDeleteTo anon 21.58
Options available for change are plenty ,much more than the 2 major parties would like us to believe.
We just have to cast our 10 votes wisely and believe that if the politicians care so much about Gibraltar there should not be much difficulty in forming an alliance or a coalition amongst those elected if the electorate chooses so.
Both parties will say that it cannot be. That they will present the 10 perfect candidates for the job.That they know best and it cannot be any other way.
Well we already know what this means and we do not like it.
I say lets not accept this argument any more.
A coalition or an alliance can work because we already have it in disguised form. It already exists in both government and opposition.
The GSLP and the Liberals have an alliance
with the sole intention of gaining power .What happened to the famous GSLP manifesto that Garcia tore in front of our eyes. No forget that .It was better to pass go and collect £200 than to struggle in the shadows.
Garcia and the Liberals would never have gained a seat in Parliament if it was not for the GSLP block vote. So basically all GSLP voters have had to vote the Liberals whether they agreed or not.
The GSD although being a single party is made up of an alliance of individuals from very different backgrounds. We have 3 former ex trade union leaders forming part of a goverment of the right. Remember Mr Feetham (Labour) denouncing all things GSD . Another one who preferred to pass go and collect the £200.
You see how easy it is to form a coalition.
Let us be fooled no longer.
As you can see they make the alliances that suits them anyway. What I am saying is let it be us the electorate who decide who has the privilege to form an alliance to form government.
We have to think carefully. Each one of us has 10 votes . That means 10 possibilities. Not 1 vote and not 1 possibility. That is the mentality that we have to break. We have the power in each and every vote we cast.
At present I am thinking of voting independents and leaning towards 2 or 3 PDP because they are the only ones offering any hope for change from the dreadful situation we face.
Options we have . We just have to unite amongst ourselves to agree the coalition that we want otherwise it will be imposed on us .
Lets look to the future .Change is possible .
Believe it.
I hear Norbert is standing and for the GSLP. Wena Nobert! Pero you have a tough task given that you are all for expats. I can only assume that your statement suggesting that Gib nurses should be encouraged is evidence that you believe they do not quite meet your own expectations and reading marginally between the lines your comments on the U.k standards not necessarily being a must may suggest that Spanish nursing staff and those currently working for GHA are quite exemplary.
ReplyDeleteI'd be very keen to hear Norberts view on the local managers?
Anonymous at 08:55
ReplyDeleteHow you can come to the conclusions that you come to on a reading of Norbert's comment astounds me. He is arguing the exact opposite of the argument that you so incorrectly and inaccurately attribute to him.
Imagine that 3 or 4 PDPs, a couple of independents including our own cousin Robert, Caruana, Bossano, Picardo y Garcia. Hahahahahaha!
ReplyDeleteIf Carlsberg did Political Parties......
Roberts idealist approach might work in Disney Land with Peter Pan as the independent who can bring all the free thinkers together and live happily ever after. In the unlikely event that it does materialise it will end up in tears and this ridiculous experiment born out of self interests will only weaken our Govt.
Anonymous at 09:09
ReplyDeleteSo negative, so protective of vested and established political interests. Do you think any change comes without idealism? Perhaps that is what has been missing in Gibraltar for so many years. Would you deny me my democratic right to give it a go?
Aii mi niño, of course not. But you are pulling at extremes and whereas I like the fact that you have posed questions and encouraged thought, balance Mr Vasquez, balance is the key.
ReplyDeleteHow could a Corruption and Bribery Commission be established as a truly independent body? How would its members be appointed to ensure that they are not leant on by Govt to act one way or another?
ReplyDeleteAs to bribery and corruption itself in Gibraltar, I doubt (and hope) there are not cases of money changing hands in exchange for favours, licences, permissions or the like. In the case of corruption, what constitutes corruption? Would it, for example, constitute ministers or civil servants permitting matters to take place or not (either by doing a certain act or, more probably, by not doing an act - turning a blind eye)which results in unfairness, advantage, repression, fear or the like?
I think that the allegations of corruption in Gibraltar relate the lack of true independence, transparency and democratic governance, all topics which you have posted on before. Could a Bribery and Corruption Committee tackle these issues both in theory and in practice?
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteIt seems that your post has gone walk about again and as with most posts that you write Robert, we return to the party political tug of war, with the added LW experiment as a third runner in the game.
I suspect that the praise and attention that you have gained so much off in recent months (with my help of course..;) will have no doubt been a major factor in your decision to start thinking about standing for election as an independent.
Admirable though your reasons are, it remains clear to me that your strategy is not in the best interests of strong govt but rather in the interests of what may be considered a fairer more accountable system, but one nonetheless that hinders and prevents a Govt to govern. Todays' political Gibraltar is a far cry from the part time politics that we had many years ago and our political circumstances today requires strong leadership (which ever party governs).
Although margin here is for parliamentary reforms, I personally believe that encouraging pressure groups, and other non-party political organizations and freethinkers able to generate ideas and question not from within but from outside the arena and able to attract cross party consensus on issues without politically hijacking in favour of one party or another.
I think we may have touched on the Henry Jackson Society in previous posts, I recall you may have blushed; this Robert is a real deficit and your blog has in my view created the makings of a society that is far more effective as independent free thinking but out of political play than in. Let me put it this way; do you think that your blog so far, will influence the political manifestos of each party?
In conclusion, we require better candidates in our party political system, a system that does work, but deserves better props...:)
G
Dear Robert,
ReplyDeleteI have always advocated the need for freedom of speech with no effcts.
However having written certain comments maybe of a delicate nature . I cannot but notice that these comments are not published.
I realise that in order to raise ones political profile this is the medium to do so.
However I do at times wonder whether or not you censor comments to your political convenience.
D.A
Devils Adovate....
ReplyDeleteRobert
D.A by the way was Devils Advocate. Maybe the reason for not publishing my previous comment was due to a network glitch??
Devils Advocate..
ReplyDeletePerhaps we should meet up for a coffee with Brian and or Philip.
Devils Advocate...
ReplyDeleteDear Robert,
Ever considered about possibly introducing a live chat forum.
Such a live forum might spice up the debate?
D.A
PS I am still awaiting a reply regarding the coffee?
D.A.
ReplyDeleteI am liable for defamation, so I am careful not to publish comments that could be defamatory otherwise I publish all comments favourable to my argument or not. I also try and edit out defamatory parts when I can. I do not recall receiving comments from you that I have not published so there may have been a glitch.
Coffee ... great but as I do not know who you are it is in your hands,
Live forum ... do not know how to do it ... and time is an issue ...
Ghost
ReplyDeleteWell if you think that wait till I write my piece for next Thursday. It will throw a spanner in the works for"strong government" as you call it ... I call it undemocratic government. There is no reason why there cannot be "strong government" with a reasonable legislative check and balance ... I was going to write this piece tomorrow but an intervening event makes another one more topical. No one can say that I am not prolific or short of ideas ... :)
ke pena ke los politicos estan stagnant!!
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteQue polla ere Robert....estamos de acuerdo con checks maybe you aspire to more than I do, but there are other more effective methods and LW is living proof.
You should think about LW Society.
Te vere luego no doubt, although I worry about you lifting yourself out of that chair on table 3 at El Royal Calpe..:)
G
L.E.F.
ReplyDeleteTo anon 9.09
Bossano and Caruana in the same party never but the other possibilities why not ?
After all Garcia ,Feetham , Picardo were together not so long ago. So was Azzopardi and Cruz part of the GSD.
Add 2 or 3 independents and we are nearly there.
Change is possible . Whether it will be successful or not is immaterial if we do not believe that it is achievable.
The worst that can happen is that no consensus can be agreed and we have to vote again. So what.
It must be better than voting all these hanger ons that we have to swallow at present.
I agree with your Disneyland analysis because we already have it here present. Unfortunately it is led by the evil Captain Hook and we need Peter Pan to save us.
The tears are also with us. Gibraltar has been crying tears for years but no one listens to our cries.
"How could a Corruption and Bribery Commission be established as a truly independent body?" The FSC couldn't do it. What makes you think a CBC could?
ReplyDeleteDr Borge
ReplyDeleteI 100% Agree with your comments made.
Also may add that you would be the best minister for health that Gibraltar could have!
As far as qualifications go,these are just a piece of paper thats states that someone has undergone a specific training and should be able of doing a job.The most successful person i ever worked with did not have any qualifications but is considered a world-wide genius in his field and even has an aula in the university of Madrid with his name!!!
We tend to look at the NHS and spanish systems but why don't we check out the scandinavian systems and learn from them instead.We should be innovative and stop copying those that fail like the NHS.
D
Cynic
ReplyDeleteIt could, for example, be appointed by the Judicial Services Commission and it could be another Constitutional body.
Ghost
ReplyDeleteI do not know what you aspire to on checks and balances but you do have more information about my views ... I doubt that we are on the same page ...
Devils Advocate...
ReplyDeleteDear Robert,
I am surprised that the topic concerned corruption and bribery has not been debated significantly, except it appears individuals have gone on a tangent regarding everything else.
If we consider a local example of corruption discussed in the media ( eg 20 Kg Cocaine missing from the evidence room at New Mole).
it is worrying to consider that if such a scenario has occurred within a Dept responsible for local civil law and order, what possible degrees of corruption exist within other Gov Dept well away from the RGP.
This is by no means a criticism in general of the devoted members of the RGP, since many police officers are personal friends and one praises their work locally.
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteLOL - Que esta aburrido no picha...:)
I guess the difference is that I seek balance and middle ground, you prefer the revolution, which at times is required but not in our case.
Out of curiosity, what's your opinion of the delegation from the Channel Islands who tried a similar experiment to yours and are now studying our system to revert to.
G
Kaelan Joyce said...
ReplyDelete“Corruption” and “bribery” are usually words associated with the likes of third world countries. The catchphrase “the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer” conjures up imagines of people living in mansions and others in card board boxes. When in reality there is more to it.
It must be noted/acknowledged that corruption and bribery can take place at many different levels and in my humble opinion Gibraltar is rife with it. Those who know me will tell you that I am pretty “street wise”. I associate myself with all types of individuals from lawyers and politicians to thugs and delinquents. I KNOW what is happening in OUR Gibraltar because I have made it a point to do so. I am out there, listening, watching, and mingling with the diverse crowds. That is why I despise the “perfect” Gibraltar that the GSD Government keeps portraying because I KNOW it does not exist. Furthermore I find it extremely amusing when the GSD sycophants attack the opposition (and Bossano specifically) by highlighting “Lo tiempo del Winston”. Don’t you puppets realise that there is now MORE contraband taking place than what there was 15 years ago???? The difference being that the ‘Winston boys’ have now been replaced by lo ‘Pirata con Corbata’. Whilst the ‘Winston Boys’ had the typical “in your face” approach/mentality this new generation of smugglers are not only intellectually gifted and sly but also far more capable. Blending in effortlessly with a society led to believe that the smuggling days are over, “a thing of the past” like the GSLP. Additionally those who know differently are too comfortable to state otherwise. After all in Gibraltar (as in all EU countries) we do have relatively high standards of living. Why should they go “looking” for trouble right? Everyone knows what is going on, but no one wants to come out and point fingers for fears of retribution. Gibraltar is too small to make such menacing enemies.
Aqui lo que ay es una “MAFIA” and everyone knows it. Yet few (if any) are willing to stand up and do anything about it. Has it never occurred to anyone that these smugglers, drug dealers etc, which we consider to be lowlifes are supported financially by wealthy sources? I don’t think it takes rocket science to figure out the rest.
Food for thought…………
K
Comecuco says...
ReplyDeleteAt the next election the words “honesty” and “integrity” will likely feature in the election debates when referring to the GSLP. But when I open the Chronicle today I wondered, should we not also question the honesty and integrity of our current administration. The topic of course is Moroccan workers.
The Government has stated in the Chronicle today, and I quote “The Government absolutely rejects the suggestion by Unite and others that the human or any other legal rights of Moroccan nationals in Gibraltar are being infringed.”
I am afraid when I read this I cannot help but feel that the Government generally, and the Chief Minister, are actually lying to us. Why? It is simple. Anybody who has any involvement with or knows anybody in the Department of Education and / or has any friends in our Moroccan community can confirm whether the facts I am saying here are true. If you think I am lying then you should ask them and they will tell you it is the truth...probably the people at No.6 know this too.
Last year, just before summer, the Supreme Court of Gibraltar made a judgment which said that ALL children have the right to an education here, in local schools. The case was regarding a foreign lady– she did not have a legal right to be in Gibraltar. Her children did not have a right to be here either. But the judge said that her children had the right to go to school here. You can read the story for yourself in the Chronicle archive at this link;
http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=19332
It is a simple fact that in Gibraltar there are a considerable number of children who are here illegally – most of them children of Moroccan workers who have been here for many years. Some of them are in school. Many are not.
I have a very good friend of many years, who is a very long time resident in Gibraltar. His children are in Gibraltar but are not allowed to go to school. He has tried everything he can think of to get his childrens into school but they will not put his children in school. Of course the Government knows about his children and all the other children in the2 same situation here in Gibraltar. In particular our Chief Minister knows because it is he who is the Minister for Immigration.
How then can the Government so confidently say ““The Government absolutely rejects the suggestion by Unite and others that the human or any other legal rights of Moroccan nationals in Gibraltar are being infringed.” The Supreme Court of Gibraltar has said it is the right of every child to be in school, but the Government knows that there are children in Gibraltar who are not in school, who want to be in school, but whom the government are ignoring. Surely this is a breach of their human and legal rights?
For me this does not add up, and the Government is lying to us. This just happens to be an area where I know they are lying because I have personal knowledge. But it makes me wonder, are they lying to me about other things too and I just don’t realise because I don’t know all the facts.
Well anyway, if they start going on about the GSLP in the election, then think about this post. I am not saying that I support the GSLP, I am just saying that people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Anon19:47. The Govt is doing it's utmost to act accordingly and protect our immigration issue with regards to the Moroccons as best it cam in what is a highly sensitive situation for Gib in it's entireity.
ReplyDeleteBefore you start harping on and accusing this Govt of lying and giving this bull if you nit being GSLP, I would suggest that you speak to Joe, Fabian and crew and confirm that they are happy to have you entertain this very delicate situation in the way that you just have.
And to think that GBC actually repeats Thursday's Talk About Town ???? The lights are on but obviously no one is at home. I suppose they just want to make sure they offend as many viewers as possible. Regrettably
ReplyDeletethis shows a lack of thought and concern about public opinion and an inability to make decisions at the top. Where is the leadership?
Maybe we need a new King pin...
Just as the famous tribal chief of a small yet incredibly rich country whose penchant was for collecting ornate, carved and bejewelled chairs, (he paid a fortune for the Peacock one from Persia), which he stored in the rafters of his wood and reed palace. He was found dead one morning under a pile of his precious belongings after a particularly turbulent night with wives and weather. The moral, "People in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones!"
ReplyDeleteJesulin etc.
Hear hear Joelle Baglietto!! Well said, I am watching the repeat of TAT. How can this programme be aired twice!!!! That it was aired on Thursday night is bad enough - have GBC not had the time to watch the programme since Thursday?!?? Surely all the panelists must be cringing, or should be, as they watch themselves.
ReplyDeleteWhat does the Womens' Association have to say about this?
the Women's Association?
ReplyDeleteThe last time they spoke, it was in support of raising the Age of Consent, across the board, to 18. I wonder how many women they canvassed to reach that conclusion?
In any case, like many other pressure groups, the Women's Association enjoys 'royal' patronage - they will say nothing, until they are told to!
I'm just wondering how long it's going to take for the crew to cone out and blame it all on the GSD.
ReplyDeleteJust watching TAT on GBC online. It's hilarious, I want more.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what is worse?
ReplyDeleteThe days of the Winston activities, or the society of compulsive Gamblers that we appear to have nurtured within Gibraltar.
I can't really say whether I am proud to have leeching online casinos as a contributor of the local economy.
This type of business with respect to other countries doesn't appear to do our reputation any good.
The public Casino may have a building, but has as a result lost its class for its profits.
Worrying when you see students from Comprehensive on a weekend with passes playing poker etc etc.
But then again coming back to the topic to be discussed.
Do/would you ever see police in this area?
"Increible el poder del los billetes"
Corruption/Bribery/Smuggling/Tobacco/Nepotism/ Gambling/Fraud/
ReplyDelete"Aqui in Gibraltar tenemos de todo meno las putas"
So much for having an international consultant earning 12 thousand pounds a month,for what? I am sure this kind of verbal abuse toward woman is not allowed at sky
ReplyDeleteI would scrap it altogether as it very expensive to run so we should stick to radio
Or have GBC in private hands and let them pay their way as other businesses do. Enough subsidies for pathetic institution in gibraltar
Anonymous 12-2-2011 at 20:54
ReplyDeleteThe use of such language to justify sweeping problems under the table frightens me. It evidences that a small number of people should take a dangerous value judgment that we must not let minorities with problems undermine the rights of the majority. Such positions are what justify totalitarianism. The situation is exactly the opposite. The rights of minorities should not be swept under the carpet. If those minorities do have rights it is incumbent on governments in representation of the majority to ensure that the State retains its reputation by upholding and enforcing he rights of minorities, however sensitive these might be. Hiding the truth is the most dangerous threat to democracy. Gibraltar's institutions have a habit of doing this ... why did we spend so many years confronting Franco's repressive Spain to end up with this type of people with such regressive philosophy?
Corruption undermines society. If you have a community of only 30,000 and they do not care that £11,000,000 still need to be explained does not mean that there is corruption but that the people are so apathetic that corrruption could exist and nobody would notice. Do we have the most silly people in the world?
ReplyDelete£11m in Gib is the equivalent of £22,ooo,oooo,ooo,ooo in UK we really have lost the plot.
ReplyDeleteTo ANON 12 February 2011 00:36
ReplyDeleteYes and all money and property that is made out of corruption and bribery should be confiscated in the same way the law does with drug lords smugglers and other criminals
The clever Kings and Lords of corruption and bribery steal from the people and their country. They control society from behind the scenes for their advantage and for their select few. They undermine democracy and all its freedoms rights and duties - the rule of law
The title "The Honourable so and so" is a badge that is given not to benefit corruptly out of it but as a transparent label of the duty that public office holders and servants have
It's shameful to see uk mps going to prison for corruptly claiming expenses they were not entitled to
In Spain y operacion Malaya in Marbella shows the type of corruption that goes to the core of modern society - illegal building permits construction lords ostentatiousness nepotism high-handedness extravagant spending illegal use of the policia local intimidation tax dodging sex and parties prensa del corazon badly built houses y las arcas municipales sin un penny
Corruption and bribery are white collar crimes - los de cuello y corbata - normally 'gentlemen' in expensive suits and nice ties
In Spain some of these crimes are callled - trafico de influencias:
El funcionario público o autoridad que influyere en otro funcionario público o autoridad prevaliéndose del ejercicio de las facultades de su cargo o de cualquier otra situación derivada de su relación personal o jerárquica con éste o con otro funcionario o autoridad para conseguir una resolución que le pueda generar directa o indirectamente un beneficio económico para sí o para un tercero
El particular que influyere en un funcionario público o autoridad prevaliéndose de cualquier situación derivada de su relación personal con éste o con otro funcionario público o autoridad para conseguir una resolución que le pueda generar directa o indirectamente un beneficio económico para sí o para un tercero
Una resolucion is any decision to do or not to do something which is taken within the law or illegally to benefit directly or indirectly or to benefit another directly or indirectly
conflict of interest decisions v. objective decisions = corruption & bribery
ReplyDeleteRobert,
ReplyDeleteWhy dont you hold a llanito world day so we can meet and debate?
D
D
ReplyDeleteWould love to and am thinking about it but with so many anonymous, how many would turn up?
we do like the egyptians and camp out peacefully en los casemates y k venga el que quiera
ReplyDeleteAnon 12:31 has hit the nail on the head.
ReplyDeleteWhen 16 year old kids are given 8 year jail sentences for “tagging along” with adults and being in places they shouldn’t, yet not doing nothing.
Lawyers are merely reprimanded for being caught with CLASS A DRUGS and attempting to smuggle illegal immigrants over OUR borders, instead of being debarred or facing legal proceedings of some sort.
We must acknowledge WE have lost the plot INDEED!!
K
Good idea...
ReplyDeleteRobert you decide which pub we can arrange this in.
I'll make sure they turn the lights out.
There you go guys solved.
Maybe we could invite some reps from the GSD and stick them in the corners;easier to find!!! LOL
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
ReplyDeleteCON UN BOLLO EN LA MANO
MIENTRAS TU HERMANO
SE COMO UN CARAJO
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
TODO ESTA BIEN Y BONITO
MUCHO DINERO Y GASTOS CAROS
PARA EL EXTRANJERO RICO
MELON Y TAJA EN MANO
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
VIENE NATIONAL DAY
Y EL PUEBLO DIVIDIDO
POR ESPANA Y ANDORRA
SELF-DETERMINATION PERDIO
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
AQUI HAY MUCHOS SORDO MUDOS
Y OTROS CON EL ROBO ENTRE LAS PIERNAS
Y EL QUE HABLA Y DICE LE DAN POR CULO
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
MUCHO AEROPUERTO Y TUNEL
MUCHAS CASAS CARAS
Y LOS DEL PUEBLO QUE SE ESPEREN
POR LAS SOBRAS
QUE QUIEN SE CREEN ESTOS LLANITOS QUE SON
SINO UN BUEN BROWN MOJON
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
NI PARLAMENTO NI DEBATE
BOSSANO CASI NOQUEAO EN EL COMBATE
Y QUIDAO QUE LA LENGUA DE CARUANA NO TE REMATE
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
1 MAS 9 SON DIEZ
DIEZ SON MENOS QUE UNO
8 SON MENOS QUE DIEZ Y MENOS QUE UNO
QUE LIO TIENE EL PUEBLO
SIN VOZ Y SIN OTRO VOTO
IRSE TODOS A RESAR A GROTTO
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
TO TRABAJA PERO NA MARCHA
TRES PALABRAS Y TRES GRITOS
Y TO SOLUCIONAO
PERO PODRIDO EMPIEZA A OLER EL PESCAO
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
MUCHAS COLAS Y TRAFICO
MUCHAS EXCUSAS Y CORDOBA
LA GRANDE Y BONITA
NO HAN METIDO A TODOS LA PUNTITA
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
AQUI NO SE QUIEREN NI A LOS MARICAS NI BOLLERAS
A LAS CORTES SENORES Y SENORAS
SEMOS RECTOS Y INTOLERANTES
Y A LA IGLESIA LA PONEMOS POR DELANTE
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
MUCHO CANALES TV Y POCO ORGULLO
GBC Y LA CRONICA TRATAN
PERO POR 7 DAYS LOS MATAN Y LES JODEN TAMBIEN LA SEMANA
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
AQUI NO HAY CORRUPCION
NI ENTENDEMOS EL TOPIC
BAJO DISCURSION
PERO QUE ME IMPORTA A MI
CUANDO TENDO DING DING
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
EN LAS ELECIONES PROMETEN
Y DESPUES TE LA METEN
POR DETRA ENTRA Y LUEGO DE GAY RIGHTS
NI UNO Y ELLOS NO SON NINGUNOS
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
MUCHA HIPOCRESIA Y CARAS BUENAS
LAS MASCARAS DEL TEATRO TIRAO
SON £5.5 MILLONES DE LOS DESGRACIAOS
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
NO TE ATREVAS A IR EN BICICLETA
TE VALLAN A METER LAS MANOS EN LAS TETAS
O TE CAIGAS EN LAS NUEVAS CARRETERAS
Y DE CLAIM A TUR HERMANA LA ANACLETA
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
QUE SIGAN EL CACHONDEO
QUE EL PUEBLO SUFRE Y DE MAREO
Y OTROS DE RESACA
PERO TENEIS YA MUCHA CACA
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
PERO MUCHO QUIDAO YA
QUE VIENE LLANITO WORLD Y SUS MUCHOS COLEGAS
CON LA ESTACA Y EN UNA TROPA
A LIMPIAR ESTA MALA MAREA
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
DEMOCRACIA DERECHOS Y OBLIGACIONES
Y RESPETO AL ESTADO DE DERECHO
SON LAS ARMAS Y BANDARES
QUE ESTOS TIOS TRAEN
WALK LIKE A LLANITO
EN PIE Y NO DE RODILLLAS
COMO LORCA Y POETA
SIN MAMAR DE LA TETA
CON FILOSOFIA Y MUCHAS LETRAS
I would!
ReplyDeleteRegards
D
anon at 20:54 on 12th feb .
ReplyDeletewhat i have said is a fact.
you can tell me I am a gslp fan if you like, but another fact. i am not.
what i am is a person with a good moroccan friend whose children are being let down by this government. encima they, the government, issue press statements saying that nobody should worry because under their control nobodies rights are being infringed.
in my view that is a lie. i know it is a lie. and like i said it makes me wonder what else they lie about.
my comment stands on its own without any reference to the gslp. the only reason i brought them in is because for sure, in the next election, honesty etc is going to be made an issue by the GSD. Well i want everyone to know that if its an issue, it applies to both parties.
you are typical of the pro-government types when it comes to this issue. you do not tackle it head on. instead you make allusions to "this very delicate issue" and "our government doing the best it can" as if i could not possibly understand what different things this government has to balance when making its policy decisions.
don't patronise me. you want to justify what this government is doing, why it has published a blatant lie, do it with your own facts and argument. i have justified my opinion with facts and argument. now you have a go. i bet you won't because you can't.
We could turn up but wouldn't necessarily have to divulge which anonymous posts were ours or which pseudonym(s) we use or have used in the past. That would guarantee a modicum of unanonymous anonymity, I guess.
ReplyDeleteIs there anyone in Gibraltar who knows of the corruption problems in Hong Kong in the 80's or someone in Gibraltar who knows about them?
ReplyDeleteWhat about the Foreign & Commonwealth Office?
I will organise a Llanito World reunion in the next couple of weeks ... a Thursday evening more than likely and undoubtedly in a pub!
ReplyDeleteAnon 15:05. You have not said anything, you intimate to lies, you suggest that that you are not GSLP, you say nothing of substance, you are a stereotypical charcacter who obviously struggles with the big picture. Any attempt to even debate with you would be wasted.
ReplyDeleteAs to other comments on corruption from those with what can only be described as Hollywood imaginations, what can one say, you'd think we'd have riots and gangs in black mercs with tinted windows riding the streets with their long black coats, cigars and terrorising us mere mortals.
Even the melodramatic cousin Robert writes quite mildly on the issue of corruption and bribery which in fairness could be checked with some reform.
Anonymous at 17:45
ReplyDeleteMelodramatic Cousin Robert? That is a new one. I am constantly criicised for being to passive and too mild in my criticisms ... well everyone can judge for themselves.
As to your comments about anonymous at 15:05, are you suggesting that there are no issues affecting the Moroccan community that persons in power are not brushing under the carpet? I fear you are wrong, even anonymous on 12-2-2011 at 20:54 says keep it all quiet people!
Quite the contrary, I say consider the big picture and act sensibly accordingly and with consideration.
ReplyDeleteAnon 17:45
ReplyDeleteCorruption and bribery runs rife in our society. DIGAS LO QUE DIGAS.
Facts and figures speak themselves. One just needs to take notice of the ever rising crime rates (incidentally at an ALL time high) in Gibraltar to acknowledge such a thing.
K
To Anon 23:20,
ReplyDeleteI am a woman who also saw viewpoint and heard Mr Andlaws statements. I personally was not offended and please forgive me for saying, but it is a silly matter to get offended over. And to ask for his resignation? What on earth is going on?! have you not seen 'loose women' on ITV? Women talk 'smack' about men all the time, how can we demand equality and then complain when we are treated the same? Come on women, let's not be so immature. It was a light hearted discussion and here we are making a big deal out of it, who cares what he thinks? Does it affect any of our lives directly? NO? So what then? Que diga loque quiera. At the end of the day he is from a different era and his opinions will be subject to the era in which he grew up. So leave him alone, to each their own.
What if he was to be fired? How would that help? All it would mean is that we would be in a worse state then British TV where everyone has to watch what they say for fear of losing their jobs, where political correctness has run rampant and where freedom of speech is reserved for those who are in the minority.
I am a working woman, and I intend to work for the rest of my life, but should I decide to become a stay at home mum in the future I will also relish that role. Let's not be over dramatic and allow men to get the better of us with some silly comments. There are so many more important issues to be campaigning about, and I really hope the woman's association doesn't take action, over something as trivial as this.
Anonymous at 21:15
ReplyDeleteI fear that you both miss the point and also ignore that Andlaw said and reiterated that it was NOT said in jest but was his fervent belief. He is entitled to that belief but not to a Public Service Broadcast platform to preach it.
I'm Afraid Mr Vasquez, that it is freedom of speech, not freedom of speech until we hear something we don't like.
ReplyDeleteWhether it was his fervent belief or not, I'd rather live in a Gibraltar where he was allowed to share his opinion, however abhorrent, than in one where people are afraid to speak their minds.
Anonymous at 21:50
ReplyDeleteAs I have posted above I am afraid there are legal constraints on freedom of speech which kick in when one undermines other rights enjoyed by others like freedom from discrimination and the right to privacy (see my more detailed comment above).
I am afraid ABHORRENT comments are not permitted i.e. ones that are racial, otherwise discriminatory or undermine privacy of people. The law knows many restrictions. I fear that you may not be aware of them.
if Mr Andlaw, or anybody else for that matter stated an anti-semitic comment or referred to the blind or partially sighted derogatively, I very much doubt his fellow panellists would have laughed it off and put it down as a pensioner, born in another era, entitled to his own opinion.
ReplyDeleteOff course it matters not what Mr Andlaw thinks, we will all get on with the rest of our lives regardless, but why will we? Simply because women have battled throughout history, and specifically during the last century to achieve the level of rights we enjoy today.
Should he go? I think so, his views are of the past and they should stay there where they belong, however, he should also take the rest of the panellists with him. Their stance on Thursday was as belittling and patronising to the female sex as Mr Andlaw's.
Ms Benatar's comments that we should teach our sons to respect women were irrelevant to the argument. Perhaps, if we all taught our children, irrespective of their gender, to respect everybody else, then we wouldn't find ourselves in this predicament.
Mr Bentata raising us up above men because we can raise kids better says nothing about us. There are plenty of men who have succeeded where he has failed.
As for Mr Cartwright, he should know better. His experience as a broadcaster should have kicked in many moons ago and kept Mr Andlaw in check long before we arrived at this stage.
Mr King, wake up! You are getting paid handsomely, its time to put your mouth where your money is!
Anon 21:50
ReplyDelete"Every citizen may, accordingly, speak, write, and print with freedom, but SHALL be RESPONSIBLE for such ABUSES of this freedom as shall be defined by law"
K
Kaelan, instead of hogging the posts why dont you actually back your arguments up with substance for once.
ReplyDeleteOn the one hand you claim to be the protector of gibraltar and profess to be shocked at the way in which Gibraltar is heading etc..
on the other hand you say that you mingle with delinquents and claim to have knowledge of illicit actiivites.
well dear sir, isnt it your duty as an honest, law abiding and concerned citizen to report these matters to the police?? arent you so concerned about gibraltar?
you then claim that crime figures are at an all time high? how do you get to this conclusion? do you have any figures to back this up? are your comments justified in any way??
Anon 12:50
ReplyDeleteI have claimed no such thing!
All I have stated is that I CARE about OUR people and OUR Gibraltar. Please do not put words in my mouth or more appropriately strokes on my keyboard.
Please note I mingle with all types of individuals, this does not mean though that I condone their actions. Each to their own I say. I am not a snitch Mr. Rompe....LOL
Furthermore I don't perceive Tobbaco smuggling to be a great crime. There are far worse crimes.
In the REAL WORLD people will do what they HAVE to do, to feed their families. Not everyone is blessed with a good income or the education to land them a decent job. Y YO no pienso kitarle el PAN DE SU CASA A NADIE!
Additionally EVERYONE in Gibraltar has knowledge of illicit activities. Don't you? Shall we meet in the police station in 5 minutes and proceed to “stitch up” todo lo matutero que conocemo? Ah no sorry I forgot you post anonymously. Very brave of you to make such comments whilst hiding behind the cloak anonymity. GOLD STAR FOR YOU :)
And as for these ABSURD comments:
“you then claim that crime figures are at an all time high? how do you get to this conclusion? do you have any figures to back this up? are your comments justified in any way??”
The Chronicle and the Panorama print monthly Crime reports and statistics. This is also COMMON Knowledge.
Adio me rey.
K
Kaelan ..once again you make no sense..
ReplyDeleteon the one hand you say you do not condone their actions...then you say that people will do what they have to do and you do not want to take the bread off anyones table..
so which is it then? are you for or against illicit activities?
are you saying that its acceptable when there is no other means of income? what about your so called piaratas con corbatas?
once again your arguments lack thought and substance!
Anon 16: 33
ReplyDeleteIt is YOU who makes no sense in a rather poor attempt to twist my comments.
I do not condone such “illicit” activities but acknowledge the REASONS WHY people might be driven to do them, that is all.
If I am FOR or AGAINST such stated “illicit” activities is neither here nor there and completely out of context.
My arguments lack thought and SUBSTANCE? On the contrary my arguments are based ON SUBSTANCE.
Whilst your counter arguments are purely subjective and rely totally on unfounded assumptions.
As for thought? That is a matter of perception. :)
K
to Anon at 1745 and 1758.
ReplyDeletein my post at 1947 on 12th feb 2011 i set out what i know to be the facts.
I suggested that who ever wants can counter my allegation that the government has lied with facts.
you have not. nobody else has either.
all you have done is do what this government always do. they say "look at the big picture" but they never tell us what they think the big picture is.
Why has the GBC removed the programme with Mr Andlaw's derogatory from their website. Are they scared of people knowing the truth. They seem to have forgotten that they are there to perform a public service.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to their subsequent programme it just shows how backdated the panelists' views are, the way in which they justified their views.
I write regarding the comments about preference of "local" persons for occupying posts (or at least the higher paid ones) in Gibraltar. Apologies if the discussion has moved on a bit since then.
ReplyDeleteI'm interested in whether the proponents of such views would be of the opinion that "locals" of parts of the UK should have preference over Gibraltarians who choose to seek work there?
Also, whether such views only apply to highly paid jobs, and if it's more acceptable for "expats", whether they be of British, Spanish or Moroccan origin, to work in bars and building sites, or cleaning toilets?
I'm sure lots of Gibraltarians - and Gibraltar as a whole - have benefitted from opportunities to work in the UK or other countries. And many are still there, as is their right.
Also, please think for a minute (as opposed to just rearranging your prejudices, as the saying goes). Imagine someone in the UK suggested that you, as a Gibraltarian, were less worthy of a job in the UK because there was a Londoner / Welshman / Yorkshireman / Scot available for the job, or maybe that it was OK to employ you because you could train a local, and once they'd used you, you should perhaps think about leaving.
Wouldn't you find that a little bit offensive? I certainly would.
anon at 7:55, are you Gibraltarian? Do you live and work in Gibraltar?
ReplyDeleteWould you find it offensive if you had gone off to study, qualified and returned to your home town only to find yourself unemployed because the job you been trained to do, is taken up by somebody from another country, somebody who applied for this job outside Gibraltar, advertised by the same Government who paid for your training in the first place, and, who not only offered this person a job but adds other perks your fellow countrymen and women, doing the exact same job, don't enjoy.
Now I find that offensive!
Anon 07:55
ReplyDeleteSpoken like a true expat. (which you MUST be! Certainly no local would state such things)
You seem to have misperceived my comments.
The point that I was trying to put across is that a SLIGHT advantage should be given to those native to the land. That is all.
I will now and always advocate preferential treatment for OUR people in OUR land.
Furthermore my SET QUOTA “theory” states that a minimum of 15% of the workforce in ALL private firms should be local, not the other way round and there is a BIG difference. Please note that according to EU law the public sector is exempt from anti discrimination laws.
If by these statements:
“Also, whether such views only apply to highly paid jobs, and if it's more acceptable for "expats", whether they be of British, Spanish or Moroccan origin, to work in bars and building sites, or cleaning toilets?”
You are referring to the infamous 4 th of July rule, then NO I do not agree with such a rule.
Please to NOT compare us to the UK. The UK is in dire socio-economic straits due to their lax immigrations laws and failure to implement/enforce legislation that protects the identity of its people.
I personally would not feel insulted AT ALL if they were to give a slight advantage to THEIR natives in regards to prospective jobs. The Government of UK/Gibraltar was put there BY the people FOR the people and should therefore look out for THEIR BEST INTERESTS (not anyone else’s).
Additionally we must take into account Gibraltar’s unique situation. We are but a mere spec in the map! We cannot afford to have large numbers of foreigner workers “invade” our job market or land for that matter. The identity of OUR people would be at stake as would our ability to sustain ourselves.
Gibraltar is for the Gibraltarians first and foremost and THEN others. If you do not like it please feel free to leave. Foreigners and NOT locals should adapt.
Maybe the UK Government should take heed form such advice. Last week I spent a day in London and it was HARD to find a native.
It comes to no surprise to me at all that English nationals are leaving UK. I would do the EXACT same thing if my Country was in such a MESS.
Those are my humble thoughts of course whether I am right or wrong is another matter altogether.
K
Anonymous at 07:55 and at 10:26
ReplyDeleteThis debate is actually (a) off subject and (b) sterile because the laws of the EU require Gibraltar to have a free employment market for all EU nationals. The issue is not one that can be changed by any government or by laws. It is an issue of having the right qualifications and ability and showing this in the application process and interviews. employers in Gibraltar can then decide who is best for the job. They can take into account matters like the likely longevity of employment and ties to Gibraltar but not discriminate on grounds of nationality, if all applicants are EU Nationals. A very valid point is that we cannot choose what level of employment is open to Gibraltarians and which is open to all EU applicants including Gibraltarians so as to fill jobs that Gibraltarians do not want to do.
Your right Robert, its EU law and we can't ignore it... well, sometimes we can, if Picardo is right! ;O)
ReplyDeleteAnon @ 10.26
I strongly AGREE with anon 10:26
ReplyDeleteWe have molded our laws in the past to cater for our unique situation. Why cannot we do so again?
Furthermore we are not REALLY treated as equals by other EU member states. Why should we need to abide to their laws ONLY when it suits them?
Our EU "member" status is a FARCE and everyone knows it.
K
We are in the EU whether we like it or not. Furthermore we cannot pick and choose what part of the EU we like and which parts we do not e.g. accept EU funded projects such as beautification of Main St, the right to travel with ID cards etc. Instead of complaining Gibs should make sure they are the best for the job and they will therefore be hired. After all the free market is the best way forward, protectionism should have no place in our society.
ReplyDeleteDD
Anon 17:07
ReplyDeleteThe EU already nitpicks which laws apply for Gibraltar and which don't. For example the EU common fisheries policy does not apply for Gibraltar. I bet you didn't know that did you? So why can't WE then refuse to abide by certain EU laws? Either ALL LAWS should APPLY to us or NONE. Not only those that suit, the top EU member states and are aimed not to anger Spain.
"Protectionism should have no place in our society" WHY? And at WHAT cost? At the cost of losing OUR ROOTS?? Blasphemy!
I don't know if you have noticed but Gibraltar is not very BIG. According to EU law (Article: free movement of workers) thousands of EU immigrants could “theoretically” come to Gibraltar and legally seek employment. We are just NOT big enough to cater for such amounts.
Neglecting to regulate such numbers could:
(1) Dilute and eventually lead to the disintegration of our identity as a people.
(2) Impair our people's chances to sustain themselves and in turn their families.
We need to do what suits US best, not everyone else.
K
Kaelan:
ReplyDeleteNot so, the EU does not nit pick as you suggest. When Gibraltar acceded to the EU, for obvious reasons, it chose not to be part of the Common Agricultural Policy. The Common Fisheries Policy is part of this, so it was Gibraltar that stayed out not the EU that says that it does not apply.
I guess we learn something new every day :)
ReplyDeleteI still stand by my comments though.
Gibraltar is first and foremost for the GIBRALTARIANS!
K