One of the topics that has been a recurring theme has been the unrepresentative nature of Gibraltar's electoral system, which is part of the democratic deficit that exists. In brief, although every voter has 10 votes, due to the indoctrination that there has been over the years this has become one vote for one person: the Chief Minister. Indoctrination because the parties, over years, have all communicated one message to voters ... if you want, from time to time, Hassan/Isola/Peliza/Bosanno/ Caruana you must vote for all the party: block voting.
History teaches us that the politicians have no incentive to change the electoral system. Most have promised to do so. These promises have come to nothing constantly. False promises as are many that are contained in party political manifestos. False promises that have not even resulted in any serious or unserious attempts at even exploring or studying alternative and more representative electoral systems.
Why should politicians change the system? The existing one suits them down to a tee. The Chief Minister gets elected. He becomes the all powerful ruler. His ministers tag along earning massive salaries, most of them for doing very little. The opposition get paid, do a half hearted job and wait for the electorate to get tired of the government whilst biding its time to form government. The Chief Minister in waiting, usually known as the Leader of the Opposition, knows that one day sooner or later he has the best chance and will likely become the all powerful leader. What a great gravy train, why would a politician change it?
They will have to change it only when and if voters flex their muscle, The change has to be forced on them. This is not a call to ferment or agitate unrest like their has been in Tunisia and there is now in Egypt. Thankfully we enjoy much greater freedoms that do not require such violence to achieve change. Change can be achieved by voters flexing their democratic muscle at an election.
The "block voting" system is not carved in stone. The voting system is that each voter has 10 votes. A voter has the right to give each of his votes to each and every single individual candidate having no regard to party membership. It is not written anywhere that any voter has to look at party acronyms (GSD, GSLP or PDP) and put his cross against the same acronym. There are good, average, indifferent and outright bad candidates in each party. There are usually independents in every election.
There is a mantra in the mouths of many which goes why do we not have an electoral system that elects the best brains? This is difficult to achieve in practice because available electoral systems do not militate towards achieving this objective. What can be achieved, without any change or reform in the electoral system, is to elect the best candidates from those who are standing for election. There is absolutely no good reason why each and every voter should not vote for individuals and not for parties. Splitting your vote is the real democratic option available to voters under the existing electoral system.
Do not believe the mantra of the parties that vote splitting is wrong or bad. It is not. It is the only way that the electorate can flex its muscle and tell politicians we are fed up and that it is time for them to change and to actually do what they are elected to do, namely represent each and every one of us. We, the voters, are in charge. We are the people who put you there. No Chief Minister is bigger than us or Gibraltar. At the next election SPLIT YOUR VOTE. Vote for those individual candidates (not parties or the Chief Minister) that you think are the best of (generally) a bad choice.
Hopefully, in this way, we will not give any party a majority. Hopefully we will end up with a coalition government. Such coalition could never be made up of the GSD with GSLP or vice versa but would have to be made up of Independents/PDP candidates and one or other of those main parties. Hopefully that will lead to more representative government. Hopefully politicians will get our message. They will set about reforms to reverse the democratic and electoral deficits that exist not least because the minority candidates would force the issue because it suits them, motivated by future electoral success, to do so. Let us not have to wait for a more violent form of change. That would destroy Gibraltar and only our enemies will gain.
A coalition Govt is your version of bridging our democratic deficit? It will implode and as with most other coalitions will weaken Govt to a point were unrest and division will show. This has to be without a doubt your worst piece RV. It all sounds great and well intentioned but is no way forward to achieve what I agree is a system that requires some reform. We are a party system and all due respect, when you consider our history and the battles internally and externally that we gave overcome, I would have to say that we have done exceptionally well. Some have obviously achieved a great deal more than others. Leadership is not best served as a coalition, but your arguments may apeal to those looking for a politicsl utopia that quite frankly only exists in Disney.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 11:58
ReplyDeleteYou put words in my mouth nowhere do I say that a coalition will bridge our democratic deficit. i say it will help repair and reform it. You are a true right winger. Consensus government should certainly be possible in Gibraltar. it is the main form of democracy and government in many larger european countries. A political utopia NO but a better more representative government YES. I make no apology for that. I believe a large part of the electorate will make no apology for that. Time will tell.
My worst piece? I respect your view but let us see... It has certainly sparked some emotion ... do I smell fear?
At least you implicitly admit that there is a democratic deficit. Why not be positive? Let us know what your solution is to remedy that deficit?
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteMe voy a tapea and to exersize my right to walk across the airfield - after my rignones en salsa, albondigas, y callosI will endeavor to take you to pieces on your call to coalition...a bit weak this one. The only fear I have is you sparring with your cousin in the house. for it will leave the other muppets with bugger all to do..:)
G
P.S you looked chirpy last week at that 40th.....nothing to do with the events of the week past..:)
Ghost
ReplyDeleteY yo tambien me voy a llenarme la bariga en Spain. Loom forward to the destruction :) of my views and yes ... I had a greta time at the party! Nothing should get in the way of a man his drink and his enjoyment! Ni la politica :)!
Ghost
ReplyDeleteY yo tambien me voy a llenarme la bariga en Spain. Look forward to the destruction :) of my views and yes ... I had a greta time at the party! Nothing should get in the way of a man his drink and his enjoyment! Ni la politica :)!
If we did have a coalition Govt as most Gibraltarians feel or say Gibraltar should have would it not be slightly impossible to hold government to task ? I mean parties e.g PDP can hardly get a full party for elections i don't even thing Daniel F did when he was in labour. How would we feel that the government would not turn into a more corrupt circle of people with no real alternative taking them to task ?
ReplyDeleteAnyway watch out for them election goodies coming your way voters caruana will not announce election until he does his next budget so he can gives us all a sweet one.
Tax - Pension fund etcc elec and water.
JJ
Voters have increasingly lost their patience with the current GSD Government. If it were not for the half-arsed Opposition then the GSD would have been out on it's behind a long time ago. And no, I'm not a PDP fanboy.
ReplyDeleteI agree with an earlier blog post where the numbers of MPs are increased to include backbenchers elected from an area within Gibraltar with direct representation of their constituents, and where applicable held to task on whether they are representing their constituents to the best of their ability.
In this fashion, a party might hold a majority BUT by no means implies that bills are passed indiscriminately and with impunity as is the case at present. REAL effort would be involved in passing bills, and perhaps the ONE MAN vision thing may become a thing of the past. Alternatively if a CM with a 'Vision Thing' is able to finance his project with the approval of Parliament then it lends it a lot more credibility.
Their would still be single party block majorities and opposition, but politics would become a lot more accountable and accessible to the man on the street with MORE MPs (from GSD, GSLP, PDP, Independents, etc).
And whilst I'm at it how about a 2 term limit on the CM post as a limitation to the PRCs and JBs of this world? Additionally how can I get a Speaker that calls them as he sees it and stops Parliament descending into the circus it becomes from time to time?
F
ReplyDeleteI agree on increased district based MPs. This piece explores how the electorate might achieve that objective.
I do not agree with 2 term limitation. This institutionalises a presidential style of government which is what we have and is what e=we need to dispense with.
RV
ReplyDeleteThe reality is that unless real significant reform is undertaken the status quo will remain. I do not believe imposing a 2 year term limit compounds the 'Presidential' mentality other than limiting the time an individual becomes the 'One Man' show, or Puppeteer with his cabinet of Puppets if you will.
Please do not misunderstand me. I have NO liking whatsoever of person specific Politics. Unfortunately the respective executives of both the Government and Opposition CHOOSE to make Politics tribal with their life-long Chieftains at the helm with a hand on every issue. Therefore a term limit will recycle CMs and give Gibraltarians a variety of Puppeteers, even if it takes 8 years at a time to achieve it!
Oh, could this 2 term limit exclude such individuals from participating in politics directly or indirectly for the rest of their lives?
Down with Career Politicians!
In my opinion, 2 term limits are not the way to go. Just look at the american presidential model: how often do two term presidents avoid looking like "lame ducks" in the last couple of years of their tenure? Not often.
ReplyDeleteApart from that, why arbitrarily deprive Gibraltar of talented individuals who may still have a lot to offer? Its not as if we are blessed with handfuls of people of the calibre of Sir Joshua Hassan.
RVLW's suggestion is about as good as it can get within the limitations of our archaic electoral system. Throw the cat amongst the pigeons by all means, vote for those candidates who will serve Gibraltar's interests best, regardless of political affiliation. A coalition government will of necessity require a collective willingness to work together in order to function.
Paco
ReplyDeleteI would suggest that both PRC and JB have been looking like lame ducks for quite some time now and for distinct reasons at that. The only limitation is that NONE of them will ever stand down voluntarily as much they might want anyone to believe.
It all comes down to the executive. If the executive has the choice of choosing the same individual year in year out then they will.
What new blood has the ability to burst through?
'F'
ReplyDeleteWhat you suggest is not as easy as it seems and you know it.
Your assessments seem to be based on wishful thinking rather than anything pragmatic (LOL).
Valid points you do make, but one has to question the feasibility of such solutions.
Furthermore I believe a variety of interchangeable (every 2 years) puppeteers would do little to improve our current situation. Actually I believe it would prove to be detrimental to us in the long run, bringing instability to what is now a stable yet admittedly inefficient system. Let us not make things worse than what they already are.
K
Good afternoon F
ReplyDeleteI would disagree with your suggestion that both PRC and JB have loooked like lame ducks for quite some time. They both still wield considerable political clout within their parties and the electorate at large. By definition, lame duck politicians are impotent in their given roles and I don't think that this could be argued as being the case with PRC or JB.
That their continuing presence at the apex of Gibraltar's political pyramid lends a stale vibe to the workings of democracy in Gibraltar... well, possibly. To label them as lame ducks? Certainly not, that would do both gentlemen a gross disservice.
Gib PLC needs and will continue to need people of the calibre of Mr Caruana, Mr Bossano, Sir Joshua and the like for as long as they feel that they have something to contribute to our society. Where I, amongst evidently others, feel there should be change is in how the power wielded by the person holding the office of Chief Minister is tempered by the other elected representatives around him.
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteRobert, comite bien?
So, to your latest attempt at what I fear is becoming an almost disney like political exhibition on how politics should be played. On the one hand you accept that our freedoms are established and modern enough to ever lead to any type of social unrest, therefore suggesting that unlike Egypt, Tunsia we enjoy a free modern and progressive society and on the other you call for our action in the next election and suggest that we vote for individuals and not a party because we unleash too much power to one leader, and you call us all toarms on this one and throw that novel idea of a coalition, which will serve us with about as much direction and strong leadership as the U.K enjoys today; and which they have found themselves in because they are a mess, economically and socially............... Tu lo que quieres es liarla.....:) I have taken note of what comes accross as a potentially predetermined strategy - "Such coalition could never be made up of the GSD and GSLP but would have to be made up of Independents/PDP candidates and one or other of the main parties." Where TF are you going with this man? Te llamo y hablamos...I'll be Che and you can be Fidel...:)
Your idea sounds great, is very liberal and appeals to the dreamer, but in my view is not a realistic approach to the way in which Gibraltar politics should be driven. I have said on many occasions that it is leadership that gaurantees society direction and progress and our ability to oust them at free democratic elections if they are not performing. Your suggestion that we vote PDP and some independents is weak, there is no real leader there, or at least none that I can see emerging....I hate to say it pero tu primo sigue siendo un bichoand will take another to have him bow out.
In my attempt to discourage your fans to follow your well meaning but disastrous idea, I quote from two sources, first Wiki, "A coalition is a pact or treaty among individuals or groups, during which they cooperate in joint action, each in their own self-interest, joining forces together for a common cause. This alliance may be temporary or a matter of convenience. A coalition thus differs from a more formal covenant. Possibly described as a joining of 'factions', usually those with overlapping interests rather than opposing" and the second "
"The Cambridge Dictionary defines coalition as: the union of different political parties or groups for a particular purpose, usually for a limited time." Both agree that coalitions are limited and driven by cause. I identify "cause" with serious fundamental issues and not something that we are in need of in Gibraltar. We are a highly political and opinionated society with the classic individualist I know it all approach of si yo seria CM lo haria asin, I believe Liverpool supporters are going through this process at present..:) and therefore nunca estaremos contentos and long may that attitude live on, for it is this that keeps us on our feet.
Finally, (y aqui me bajo los pantalones para nunca queda mal contigo, you have way too many fans) your call for reforms relating to further checks and balances are worthy of more debate and whereas I believe that PRC and the GSD have (in the past) presented them in good faith but achieved little, it is indeed for us to remind and impose on this matter and in effect make it mandate.
Gib does not have a ready opposition in waiting; this is my big gripe as you know. We have witnessed many years of a weak activity from an opposition with no interest other than (as you rightly say) to wait their turn; this is not justification for a change in the system, but rather a change in opposition.
G
Ghost
ReplyDeleteYour quote from my piece is correct but I apologise for my phraseology which is unclear. I meant that any coalition would need to be between either the GSD OR the GSLP and Independents/PDP and NOT made up of the GSD joining with the GSLP. I have rephrased this to make it clearer.
It may be that coalition government does not offer the most stable of situations but how else do we the voters achieve that elusive solution to the electoral system and those elusive but much needed checks and balances? Will any politician deliver them without being forced to? I doubt it. It is only on the cards in the UK now that there is a coalition and even then subject to a referendum.
Good evening all.
ReplyDeletePaco:
I humbly retract my statement with regards to PRC and JB being lame. Perhaps it is not a word that describes the current situation adequately as I (and I'm sure many others) perceive it.
We have a situation where individuals want to be rid of PRC BUT do not want JB. I rather foolishly associated this with being lame, whereas perhaps we are the lame ducks...
K:
Again I choose to disagree with you on that one point! I do understand your point of view with regards of swapping one benevolent dictator over another every 8 years as something which we rather not wish to contemplate. HOWEVER from a 'pragmatic' (awful word in politics!) POV we would not be subject to ONE benevolent Dictator's interpretation of our needs! Until a monumental shift of perspective is undergone by our electorate things are pretty much going to stay the same.
Venga ya Ghost I had been waiting all day for your reply (yes I am THAT sad lol)!! Valiente anti-climax pichon!!
ReplyDeleteI knew you would not agree with RV. Your Marxist-Leninist like ideology clearly clashes with Robert's liberal way of thinking but at least I expected a somewhat objective and well supported rebuttal. Unfortunately your previous posting lacks both.
The NEED for new blood is obvious and longed for by many. The block voting mentality that the public is brain washed to adhere to is a BIG problem and one that needs addressing PRONTO! If candidates were to be chosen and voted for instead of parties it would surely force our MP's and MP wannabes to cease their seemingly complacent attitude.
'F'
We agree to disagree once again.
Though I will conceed your evaluation in regards to "monumental shift of perspective etc" carries weight. :)
K
An Omnibus says:
ReplyDeleteTwo-year terms equals "lame-duck politicians" and presidential leadership? Haven't we already got that with our present system?
I say we give limited terms a try. At least it will reduce some of our politicians strutting around suffering from illusions of grandeur. Power does strange things to the mind.
We will soon be called to exercise our democratic right to elect our next government, and we have to try and break this domination of party politics(AT GUTTER LEVELS) and the idea that we have no alternative.
ReplyDeleteThat is what the GSD/GSLP want us to believe. That only they can deliver us the good and democratic leadership to guide us.
Both parties arguments amount to,either choose the devil you know ,or the devil you also know and already kicked out.
What a poor prospect for the whole of Gibraltar . Its not good enough.We should not accept that argument .That reasoning is corrupt and is stuck in the past .
Seeing the Egyptian people taking to the streets , fighting for the right to vote for a new government, should make us realize that each individual vote we cast is never wasted if we use it wisely.
I recommend we at least try to think of the possibility of a coalition inlcuding 2 or 3 independents.
What is the worst that can happen ? That the Government cannot fulfill its role and we have to go to elections sooner than expected. So what.
At least we tried to break this cesspit of snakes which is our parliament today.
We need change and fast.Even if we cannot bring down either government or opposition we can still influence the election results and bring some change .No matter how small but change.
Through your blog we could nominate a candidate as an independent to stand for election. Once agreed on this individual, he would represent all Gibraltarians who value democracy and want a change from the current system .
What could this achieve you must wonder?
I believe that if we present an impartial candidate and mobilize the population through internet to vote for this independent, then change is possible without it affecting the current system of party politics which is so entrenched in our voting DNA.
My suggestions to voters would be.
For all democracy voters : Vote our independent and the rest is up to you.
For all GSD voters ; Vote for our independent candidate and for the first nine GSD candidates in alphabetical order. The last GSD candidate would stay out but would not affect the ability of the GSD to form and function in Government.
For all GSLP voters: Vote for our independent
candidate and for the first nine GSLP candidates in alphabetical order. The last GSLP candidate would stay out but as above would not affect the ability of the GSLP to form and function in Government.
We could end up with our independent candidate with more votes than anyone else. He/She would not be able to form or command a majority in government but He/She would carry the weight of the people to oversee any democratic deficiencies carried out in our name.
This action would tell the winning party who forms government that the people are fed up and that we demand change even if we have to put up with another 4 more years.
This formula would ensure that neither GSD or GSLP voters would lose out to one another. It could be accepted by either parties followers
because neither party needs 10 candidates to win. Either GSD or GSLP could form a majority government with 9 candidates.
This way either party can form government but the winner will be Gibraltar by demanding that we want better democracy.
We must not accept the entrenched view that we have no option but the patio politics of today.
That is the same argument used by the Egytian dictator. That change is not possible unless he says so. Well tell the Egyptians that.
Yes it is possible to strive for change, to look for alternatives. It is up to us to look for that change.
To end on a Gandhi saying.
'We must become the change we want to see in the world'
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteRobert you are right in that the task is a tough one; ironically your latest blogger (Anon 21:25) makes a strategically intelligent proposal. Whether there is anyone out there prepared to stand on these matters is another question.
I recall in the last election a gentlemen standing on behalf of a fathers right; yes I agree it is hardly a political hot potato but his passion, reasoning and convictions were admirable and led in my view to a great deal of respect for him by many, including the GSD who under Feetham's direction delivered many changes in our justice system.
Like the many pressure groups of the day, as with public opinion and on the basis that there is a genuine reason for reform to modernize, change can and will happen and requires no restructure to a system that to date has worked. What we require is intelligent debate, one that can capture the Govts attention. Look, if we had a good opposition prepared to make good politics (which I truly believe is possible), we would not be arguing over freedoms and checks and balances, for they would be exercising this on our behalf and on the verge of forming a new Govt.....this is sadly not the case.
The very nature of Gibraltar politics is party driven and there is nothing wrong with this. There is plenty wrong with many who participate in what I believe should be a humbling and rewarding service with the best interests of your community at heart and not just a waiting game.
G
Ghost
ReplyDeleteOnly a systemic change will deliver what so many want. We need to break the gordian knot that holds it all back. It is caused by the inherently corrupt electoral system that those WE elect do not want to reform for their own selfish ideologically corrupt motives.
Ghost says;
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong Robert, I don not disagree with you on accountability, but I value the ability for a Govt to govern far more than I do the electorate having the ability to restrict that abilty in the name of democracy.
I am sure if we sat with a bottle of Evo y un par de tapas we would find consensus.
I repeat however; far more crucial is the effectiveness of an opposition and that in my view should be our next port of call.
G
I stand by Anon 21:25.
ReplyDeleteThis suggestion is extremely good, and probably within our reach. Even our neighbours did something similar.
In La Linea, FLAVI which is a communal organisation akin to say Varyl Begg Community Centre (admittedly much bigger, and encompassing more than one estate/barriada) had their members and their familes vote for an independent candidate from within their own ranks. This individual now sits en El Ayuntamiento (for all that that may be worth!), by a true use of democracy and direct representation where previously none existed.
If this were a message board I reckon we should have Anon 21:25 stickied. Who's starting the facebook page then?
RV this might be an opportunity hard to miss, and let me tell you I'm no acolyte!
Anon 21:25
ReplyDeleteI am with you on your voting strategy. All we need now is for a couple of independents to step forward...
I agree with Anon 11.40 but we need many more than just a couple of independents standing if we are going to be able to do away with the block voting system. At the last election we had only two independents Charles Gomez who is the head of a legal chambers and Richard Martinez who is also in the private sector. Both have broad experience and polled relatively high compared to previous independents taking into account that it was the first time for both of them. Hopefuly both of these gentelemen will stand again but the electorate will need a few more names so that they can be assured that by voting for a slate of independents they can take control from the established parties. In the past people have come up with dream team lists which have included such names as Levy, Mari Guerrero, Albert Isola, Xiberras, Vasquez, Culatto, Joe Caruana, Welsh, Cumming, Olivero, Smith, Khaira, Sarsri, Maruchi Russo, Harry Gomez,Peter Montegriffo, Albert Poggio, Viale, and Faller. How about it?
ReplyDeleteAnon 21.25 Says
ReplyDeleteAllow me to elaborate on a few points I had to delete because the piece was too long.
Our independent candidate if successful should donate his member of parliament pay to the charity of his choice to make clear to GSD and GSLP voters that this is not about money or power. What we seek is change.
Also .If our independent candidate were to win more votes than anyone, yet would not be able to be part of a government, what should his pay be.?
Opposition or Government scale.
This question brings to light what a farce the increase in members of parliament achieved.
If any party can form a majority government with 9 candidates , why pay for an extra one if it is not needed ,nor can it bring any change to the balance of power.
Just another drain on the public purse. Who cares. Well we do. We care. Why pay for more when we get the same mediocrity for less.
Lastly with such a formula Gibraltar as a whole wins. Yes that includes all of us GSD,GSLP,PDP,LABOUR,INDEPENDENTS.
Lets give it a try.
Anon 13:15
ReplyDeletePeter Montegriffo? Cumming? Are you for REAL? We all know where there allegiances lie. I wouldn't vote for them even if you put a GUN to my head.
Cumming's views are well known and Montegriffo's well....
I found an interesting article published on the times online newspaper date November 5, 2002,http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/law/article1180542.ece,which amongst many things states the following:
"Montegriffo is a persuasive speaker, as befits someone who has served as Deputy Chief Minister to Caruana and as the former Minister for Trade and Industry. If his views are not as radical as Joseph Triay’s, he is nevertheless open to the concept so alien to the average Gibraltarian: an AGREEMENT with Spain."
“Gibraltar could be the fulcrum between two great cultures, traditions and language blocks,” Montegriffo says. “An agreement could be reached along the lines of that in ANDORRA, whereby popular sovereignty would be vested in the people of Gibraltar, but in a constitutional arrangement guaranteed by the UK and Spain.”
The veracity of such statements is indeed questionable, did Mr. Montegriffo actually say such things?? I am not sure, but I do believe the times online to be a website of substantial reputation. Hence my initial reaction.
So PLEASE refrain from mentioning their names in the same sentence as Gibraltar, politics or DREAM TEAM!! lololol
K
Kafab is right! Why drum up a dream team when you have Bossano / Picardo and Co. Forget Montegriffo on a joint solution these guys will have under the Spanish and British thumb before you can say........oh I fotgot you can't say it on LW. Bueno you know what I mean.
ReplyDeleteI love anon at 14.05's suggestion. Independent candidates should donate their salaries to charity. Why has nobody thought of this before? If they are no already wealthy they can just tighten their belts, down size their homes, order their spouses not to spend so much and their children to sell their i-pods and wear flip flops instead of Lacoste sneekers, hand in their insurance policies, they can wear hand me downs or clthes from the miercoles loco instead of M&S and trade in their cars for a bicycle. Mr. / Mrs. Candidate's family should forego holidays, restaurants, bars and the leisure centre and stop going to the gym. As mere mediocrities it is the least that they can do for Gibraltar. Anon at 14.05 should immediately reveal his identity so that we can publicly applaud this most privileged brain.
ReplyDeleteAnon 15:13
ReplyDeleteHarsh lololololol
But not necessarily uncalled for.
At least Anon 14:05 has his/her heart in the right place :)
It's refreshing to see people thinking with their hearts and not their pockets for a change.
K
Instead of thinking with their hearts or their pockets people might consider using their heads, which is where thinking should take place. It seems that there are too many people who are either too clever by 1/2 or live in cloud cuckoo land. ;)
ReplyDeleteSpot on anon 18:54. And it's not just about thinking it's also about practicalities, realism and the fact that it is exactly what people are discussing here on this blog that we have a right to demand from the opposition. We really ought to stop and think whether this crusade that we are on is for real or just an idealist approach from those of us who really when you consider things are more than comfortable and enjoy freedoms and a standard of living unparalleled in the western society. It's a bit like wealthy lawyer making money out of capitalist system, whilst preaching socialism after hours.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 19:04
ReplyDeleteA lawyer cannot be a capitalist because he does not control the means of production :)
A lawyer is a service provider.
Yes and pigs might fly Robert ..;)
ReplyDeleteGhost says:
ReplyDeleteGBC Robert ? what could possibly have come over them..:)
Who might I ask will have the ordeal of sparring with you on this occasion?
Que miedo cono...:)
G
I love this freaking Blog!! hahhaha
ReplyDeleteThe anon's definitely know how to put a smile on ones face :P
Anon 18:54 - regrettably you are right.
K
Tomate frito (con ajo): I am prepared to stand for election and give my salary to charity if all public sector workers in Gibraltar do the same.
ReplyDeleteI would rather have all the people listed by anon at 13.15 than the lot that is now in Parliament. We need a complete change and that involves ALL the current mebers of Parliamant retiring.
ReplyDeleteEl Robert en la tele el jueves, y se espera que se declare, por un vez. Stam James had him at 3/1 PDP / 32red esta seguro que es del GSLP / Willam Hill are all evens in him being a closet GSD supporter and Ladbrokes have him down10/1 to loose the plot live on T.V and throw his toys out the pram.
ReplyDeleteWho saw the CM on GBC 2nite stating he had nothing to do with Robert's resignation?
ReplyDeletePeroQueSeCreQueSomoTonto.com lolololol
I got to see the end bit only as GBC kept scrambling, but got the gist of his message. Ironic ideed is the fact that, Por una vez que QUIERO VE GBC no trabaje!!
K
IT IS INCREDIBLE THAT MANY IN THIS BLOG HAVE TAKEN FOR GRANTED THAT THE OPPOSITION DO NOT DO THEIR WORK!!! this is a tactic used to defer the attention from the inept way this GSD Government is running Gibraltar.
ReplyDeleteI completely disagree in that they are there for many who have problems and they ask questions in the house ( according to the GSD camp too many) yet the problem is that the media which most if not all sychophants from the GSD read or look at ie GBC and the comical (since they have ceased to publish the Gibraltarian) do not report as they should. Therefore this perception is just that a perception. Geobels said that if you say a lie one it is will not believed but if you say it a million times it becomes a truth.
By the way Robert you will as time goes by,see how the powers at be ie GSD will try to look at you as a threat and will start to make your life impossible. The "prepared question" to the Chief Minister in Newswatch or Caruanawatch is the beginning of this. Watch this space!!
Anonymous at 23:04
ReplyDeleteI agree with your warning in the final paragraph. I have one protection which is this blog that from figures I have is now read by more people than the Chronic. I also have my insurance, which I will not reveal. The CM was very democratic on GBC News tonight wasn't he? The winds of change?
It's only the wind of change for the few months before an election. After that it's back to arrogance, vendettas, more control or threats to workers.
ReplyDeleteIf you say that this blog is read by more than the Chronic it might be adviceable for someone to publish the sterling work the opposition do which in actual fact includes the GSLP, Liberals, and the PDP even yourself and Charles Gomez are in the opposittion. Yes Opposing things that we feel that the GSD Government does or does not do.
But I still admire the fact that you Robert are willing to continue to stick your head out. Hope you will continue.
Si ahora tambien la culpa la tiene Caruana! And in his arrogance and control over the media he has cunningly devised a nasty evil plan to lure Robert on screen. Pero ustedes que estai en una pelicula de CSI o algo,
ReplyDeletePa empatarla tenemo el que me llora con contando pajas mentales que si el GSLP trabaja mucho.
Aqui vamo con el appreciation society.
ReplyDeleteSo the Govt thinks that "blogging is a good thing" ? I suppose that`s why all our MP`s are mad at it..or not!! They really should check out The Blue Blog or the Labour Party`s blog to see how it`s done. Possibly learn a thing or two
ReplyDeleteAnd what`s with the "cousin Robert" comment. I bet that`s really put your mind at rest.. no Robert ??
Ke paso con el Chief??? Couldn't receive a signal for GBC last night - apparently it was down to the power cuts! El Ingle no ha metio Emergency Electric en el TV station yet???? LOL Ill have to catch last night's Newswatch on GBC Player - If it works that is!
ReplyDeleteAnd what's all this about Thursday?? Robert, are you goin on Viewpoint or something?? Who else is on the panel?? Eso no me lo pierdo yo!
Por cierto, GBC continues to be off air today! Radio is not even broadcasting online! Apparently GBC mentioned they were also suffering from power cuts on last night's NW so I guess that might eb the problem....which poses one question....
ReplyDeleteIf a State of Emergency is declared in Gibraltar - how would GBC operate the Government's Emergency broadcasts Service???? I am aware that GBC is responisble for operating the Emergency broadcasts for Govt (as any national broadcaster in any other nation) and are mentioned as so in a number of Contingency plans...but if they go off air as a result of power cuts - how would they do this??? Smoke signals or would James Neish and Co take to our streets with the GBC van and armed with megaphones????
Has anybody got any more details of the references to Peter Caruana and Joe Holliday in wiki leaks? A mate of mine in Singapore says that he came across them but cannot trace them now.
ReplyDeleteCondescending much? I don't know.
ReplyDeleteIn any case PRC ought TO BE reading blogs and saying so publicly lest he alienate more of the electorate and stay out of touch with the rest of Gibraltarian society.
Remember David Cameron blogging on his Conservative site prior to the election straight after a jog/cycle? I mean come off it, if Britain's PM is ready to do the rounds on the internet I better hope PRC do something similar to bridge the gap between him and the average Gibraltarian on the street.
Again, this election is the GSD's to lose.
Anon 05:39
ReplyDeleteSometimes reality is stranger than fiction!!
Ps- Sorry to burst the bubble you live in. :)
Just saw the Caruana "interview" on GBC Replay for 31st Jan.
ReplyDeleteI seriously cannot believe that, after days of on off power cuts, the CM can just give GBC "the call" and get a one question interview on topic "that blog".
I mean jesus GBC did it not occur to anybody to ask the man what was going on with the power? Or was that "off piste".
That interview, and how it comes about, asks so many questions it could sustain its own blog!
I particularly loved the "the FSC is an independent organisation..." followed shortly by "I appointed Robert Vasquez, I reappointed Robert". So not really independent then.
Loved the GSD Environmental "Action" Plan announcement in today's Chron.
ReplyDeleteIts role is to implement the Environmental Charter announced by the GSD just "five" years ago in 2006 .
Luckily global warming has been on hold for that period whilst the painfully slow cogs of the Gibraltar Government struggled into motion.
To Anon 05:39 it seems that my comment (23:20) must have hit a raw nerve. I do honest believe que la culpa la tiene Caruana. The reality we live in is that a Caruana se le puede echar la cupla por todo. Why? Simples because no other Minister or civil servant or GSD party member tiene lo que tiene Robert. And its not to have the cousin he has!!??
ReplyDeleteYes it's absolutely ridiculous that the CM as leader of Gib can just get an interview on GBC. Not on and what's more has sonmuch free time in his hands (like the GSLP) and so massively threatened by LW that he has meticulously schemed a plan to rid himself of Robert. To dech with our heads further he has used his powers at the GBC to let them bring RV into a debate at viewpoint....... The plot thickens. This is more than a bubble Kafab this is pigs flying with shades and a piña colada!
ReplyDeleteAnon 17:58. That's genius stuff man. I wish I had thought of that.
ReplyDeleteListen guys, if you can think it, it has probably happened.
ReplyDeleteLet me explain, PRC es capaz de maquiavélicamente planificar hasta el último de los detalles, a cualquier plan that anyone can think of.
Asà que soy de la opinión that a master plan does exist in this guy’s machinating brain. So I join all you conspiracy theorists on this one.
¿Y los otros ministros? (small ‘m’). Rascándose los mismÃsimos. And to boot… (lol) no tienen lo que hace falta (that which they scratch all day) to contradict or disassociate themselves from PRC’s comments on Andorra or anything else for that matter.
Baya, ¿decirme si no hace falta un cambio?
Robert, bendita sea tu alma, ¡y que por muchos años! ;)
Anon 18:13 obviously thinks that Caruana is not capable of getting as much time in GBC as he wishes.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that HE appoints the board and then complaints from the opposition is dealt with two weeks afyter the complain and well after the issue at hand is more or less dead.
Robert being invited to discuss issues in viewpoint is just a smokescreen which is typical from those who are blinded.
I do not believe that he has meticulously schemed a plan to rid himself of Robert",but he is certainly working at it.
and that "This is more than a bubble Kafab this is pigs flying with shades and a piña colada!" is a very good substantive and most profound statement which I will need time to digest!!!?
When arguements and sound analysis are expounded the GSD sychophants answer is usually the GSLP in the past...
The opposition has no ideas.... The opposition ask too many statistical questions....que si el nino picardo.... and wait for it es la culpa de Bossano..... or PIGS are flying with shades and a pina colada!!
quite frankly if good solid arguments are not put forward then its borrring.
Can those whose who defend Caruana can rain or sun please tell me if you can admit that the GSD is to blame NOW for the damned power cuts we are getting or tambien tiene Bossano la culpa 15 years after the GSD got into power.
By the way Robert it might be relevant now that we are constantly getting power cuts like the worst third world country to revive this topic which I see you wrote an article last years? Or even that article which was more recent that of reputation? I believe our reputation is being damaged by these power cuts. Goes to show that you are not as daft as those who defend the GSD and attack you think you are.
Yes of course. Vote GSLP if you don't want power cuts. That rings bell. It's a sign, last time we had power cuts Bossano got in. These opposition members really are on the ball. They have reached their peak in performance and are leaders in waiting. In equipo de calidad with Fresh new faces at the helm and absolutely no baggage at all.
ReplyDeleteI really do think we need to move on and debate REAL politics. Politics is about the NOW and the FUTURE not the PAST. These arguments just convince me we need to change the system and get rid of all and start afresh. Yes I know it is impossible but there is nothing wrong with wishful thinking.
ReplyDeleteGovernments a re elected to GOVERN that includes GOOD MANAGEMENT. This in turn requires the expenditure of OUR money to bail out mistakes or on wrong projects. Why don't we have a power station that is up to standard? It has been promised in manifestos. Instead we get an air terminal that was not in any manifesto to meet promises made to Spain and they do not meet their end of the bargain. This is great management I do not think!
How about if simply each party leader bowed out gracefully after soooo many years in service, and paved the way for the new generation of leaders and mps?? As in, leave the ego behind??? There is so much promise in Gib but we need a radical change in order to revamp, energise, develop and incentivise. Dont they get the hint?
ReplyDeleteGood we are back on track. Lets move the debate to real issues Now and in the future.
ReplyDeleteNOW we have to deal with POWER CUTS.
What next? Temperary generators! At the same the GSD government announces its emvironmental plan. I wonder if they have taken into consideration the environmental impact in having to take these desperate measures??
How long with this last and to have a new generating station will take at least three years.
Any comments?
What about the negotiations taking place with the MOD in relation to the supply of electricity/energy?
Will we be able to supply energy to the MOD when we cannot even have enough for our needs?
The power stations are working at full capacity (100%, hence the power cuts.
ReplyDeleteDidn't the Government know about this? IF indeed they did, I do wonder.......
Where they given due notice? If they where, why did they not build new ones? Or at least attempt to do so?
Did lack of funding delay the NEW power stations being built?
Was this because our financial resources were exhausted due to other major projects such as the Theatre Royal, New airport etc? If so should they not get their priorities right, instead of attempting to over achieve?
Why is there no contigency plan as such?
I do wonder, wonder, wonder...........lolol
Just thoughts, just my humble thoughts :)
K
I attended the lecture at the John Mac with regards to 'Energy beyond 2040'. Government (Minister Holliday) and the Gibraltar Group of Professional Engineers were and are aware that the system is running at 100%. The waterport station only generates so much power and depends on the commercial OESCO station and the MOD station when power demand peaks.
ReplyDeleteAll 3 are ageing power stations which need replacing badly since as is self evident now, now that they are breaking down. These latest power cuts are as a result of problems at the MOD and OESCO stations (probably waterport too but they wouldn't admit to that).
Are the GSD in control of how often these machines breakdown or at the rate that they deteriorate? No, they don't. Are the stations working beyond their stated operating life? YES. Should the GSD have had machines in place already to make sure that there was no shortfall? Yes, but they can claim that the 5 extra mW the GEA have pulled in is the contingency plan.
I personally believe that the GSD were hoping to ride it out until the new station was built. Unfortunately they should have banked on the whole system being unreliable.
I agree with K with regards to the priorities.
Government should have tackled the Power Station, and substantial increase in Geriatric Homes to alleviate the social pressure families contend with in addition to the GHA. Personally again I like the fact that the GSD had finally got round to improving some of our road infrastructures and lack of parking even if it did take some time.
Una de cal y una de arena!
The situation we`re currently in with energy supply has been on the horizon and geting nearer for quite some time, hence not new news. We`ve also been hearing talk of generators being brought in to handle capacity until the new station is built, again, for quite some time. My question now is ... are the generators by any chance coming via donkey express ??? Cos it seems like they`ve been "coming" for ages !!!!!
ReplyDeleteGhost says:
ReplyDeleteRobert I agree with you thoughts and the banter at this stage is unproductive. In answer to the question of why are we waiting so long for the new power station? I am told that the legal proceedings initiated by the residents of Clifftop house and which has now ended had indeed halted progress. Variables are a fact of life. I agree that immediate action is required.
I am sure we all look forwrad to tomorrow's debate on GBC - estaras nervioso no? No word on who the other characters are yet, but I am told that they are party representatives....I wonder who the lucky souls up for a debate with you will be..:)
Break a leg.
G
To anon 10:23 The GSD said over two years ago that they were going to hire skid generators and place them at Lathbury Barracks Area. To date this has not happened why? Because this GSD government have got all their priorities wrong. Their priority has been the Air Terminal.
ReplyDeleteFor me this shows the incompetence of this GSD government. I wonder how all the other Ministers feel about the fact that they are also in the firing line. I presume that they will be as silent as they have been with the fact that their CM Peter has declared that he is will to recommend a joint sovereignty status to us Gibraltarians.
I liked what Mr Michael Ancram had to say when given the Freedom of the City about joint sovereignty. Listen in, on Thursday on GBC, If power cuts permit!!
The Government actually KNEW then. NICE lol
ReplyDeleteI find it very ironic they see it fit to label us as an "established" Finance centre when we are having recurring powercut issues synonymous with the likes of Third world countries.
Una de cal y otra de arena, yes..MAYBE.
But I think we can ALL agree that the NEW Power stations should have been put at the TOP of their priority list instead of somewhere inbetween. It seems wasting so much tme and tax payers money on the Theatre Royal etc, for example, has proved costly.
When was the last time we had power issues such as these? 1980??? Porfavor how can ANYONE justify this??
Ensima me tenio que liga un plasma nuevo, cos one of the power cuts messed up the power connection of my old (2 yr) plasma :( Damn you Damn you!! hahaha :P (NOT funny)
K
Going beyond the whole new power station, upgrades to current grid, etc - was wondering on the practicalities of day to day life and how these frequent and long running power faiures are affecting people and what GibElec have in place to "compensate" customers.
ReplyDeleteJust heard that Edinborough House Estate were left without power for something like 16-18 hours yesterday!
I know that anywhere in the Developed World, Electric companies would "compensate" affected indivduals in some way or another. Surely, those residents at Edinborough Estate must have had food spoilt after remianing in an a non-working fridge / freezer for so long! Will someone compensate them for having had to chuck out their weekly / monthly meat and other frozen goods shop??
Businesses in Gibraltar have had to close shop for hours at a time losing customers and business - especially restaurants, pubs and coffee shops. Will they get any compensation??
Also, with so many constant interruptions to the power supply, and what with them not being planned, I suppose many of us have had our computers suddenly go lifeless with the power shortages. With these being frequent and constant surely some computers and indeed other equipment will have been damaged. Is there anything in place for affected parties to be compensated??
Am wondering what "plan" GibElec have in place for such occurrences. Elsewhere in the world customers get compensation. Am wondering if this has not happened here because nobody has ever stepped up to challenge this. Perhaps teh Citizens Advice can help those affected???
Anybody know if anyone has ever been compensated after suffering losses from the power failures locally??? What is GibElec's policy, ifany is actually in place??
Ghost 11:01 You are definately trying hard to find excuses for the power cuts. The GSD promised a new power station in its manifesto before properties were even sold at Clifftops. The answer is simply the CM who decides everything.
ReplyDeleteWhilst every other Blogger speaks of the Power Cuts you continue to try to divert with comments on the Viewpoint programme.
Good try!!
Anon 13:14
ReplyDeleteThere will be no compensations due to the fact that GibElec run a monopoly with no competition whatsoever.
Other individuals in other parts of the developed world can hold their energy providers at ransom a la you pay me compensation or I jump ship onto another company. With businesses being so competitive these companies cannot afford to take a reputation hit. It's better to keep your customer base happy and have them spread the word over their compensation scheme when the power blows out (as little often as it does in these other countries).
Unfortunately GibElec might see it fit to ignore customers because they might not care for a reputation hit. But Gibraltar will sure enough feel a reputation hit if this keeps on going.
On another topic about monopoly and unfair advantages, can anyone explain to me how Government can invest in the midtown project with regards to offices without indirectly competing with private developers? (keeping in line with the future of Gibraltar and not the past!)
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteI am not looking for excuses neither am I trying to defend the indefensible; I am merely pointing out the realities of variables and the unknowns in life. Or are we suggesting that every single move is predetermined and every action converts into a precise and calculated conclusion.
I think the gripe that a great many on this blog have is not actually about the power cuts, or the fact that the outages affect our lives, personally and economically; the issue I take is the fact that some chose to use the recent outage as a reason for declaring that PRC and the GSD are in over their heads and should be ousted immediately, something which I disagree with, in light of the alternatives.
Gibraltar’s power needs have increased volumes due to the unprecedented growth in the economy and the luxuries that we all enjoy in this small community. Added to this is our political requirement to control and produce our own power, unheard of in any other small community in the 1st world. Yes promises were made and a power station should have been ready today; the fact is that plans tenders and not forgetting legal injunctions have played a part.
What I find amusing however, is that where the GSD admits as Britto has publically, to overreaching in expectation in a project which is quite clearly a beast and which you may now rightly translate into playing politics, there is also the question of the opposition stating at the last election that they pledged a Carbon Neutral Gibraltar if elected. And herein lies your quandary; your Govt has admitted that by their own expectations this project was and is huge, therefore making a mockery of the oppositions remarks on a carbon neutral Gibraltar.
So before we all get up in arms over an issue in which we are right to question and hold to account, let us also take the entire scenario (given a looming election where madness settles in fast) and at the very least seek a clear and realistic perspective to this.
G
"In the past people have come up with dream team lists which have included such names as Levy, Marilou Guerrero, Albert Isola, Xiberras, Vasquez, Culatto, Joe Caruana, Welsh, Cumming, Olivero, Smith, Khaira, Sarsri, Maruchi Risso, Harry Gomez, Peter Montegriffo, Albert Poggio, Viale, and Faller. How about it?"
ReplyDeleteDream team? I don't think so. Robert Vasquez and possibly Peter Montegriffo are the only names that stand out as political heavyweights above. The GSD did have a dream team of sorts in 1996 when it included both Peter Montegriffo and Keith Azopardi. Unfortunately neither Peter 2 nor Keith could take the treatment meted our by Peter 1 and quit. Shame because it was a very promising team at the outset - and it might have remained more balanced if Peter 2 and Keith had stayed.
I'm afraid we can't get away from it. Gib has traditionally always voted for a strong leader - not for a party - and I can't see that changing any time soon.
Ghost what a load of utter dribble!
ReplyDeleteYou even contradict yourself in the same sentence (in my humble opinion):
"I am not looking for excuses neither am I trying to defend the indefensible; I am merely pointing out the realities of variables and the unknowns in life".
Come on man!! Don't be silly this has to be your LAMEST post ever!!
K
Ghost 11:01 You are definately trying hard to find excuses for the power cuts. The GSD promised a new power station in its manifesto before properties were even sold at Clifftops. The answer is simply LACK OF COMPETENCE from the Government especially the CM who decides everything. Whilst every other Blogger speaks of the Power Cuts you continue to try to divert with comments on the Viewpoint programme. Good try!!
ReplyDeleteGhost is the typical GSD hardcore! Power cuts ARE AFFECTING US! We would complain regardless of who is in Government. The fact is that YES the GSD Govt HAVE FAILED in relatio to this matter. If the same thing that we are getting this week happened with the GSLP or PDP in power, REAL people WOULD COMPLAIN too! People COMPLAIN when THINGS AFFECT THEM DIRECTLY, and this is especially so in TODAY'S GIBRALTAR, where we have generally become passive and complacent and only kick and scream WHEN THINGS affect us DIRECTLY - si no, que le den por c*** a los demas.
ReplyDeleteTrying to accuse those of us who are complaining about power shortages of just jumping in to criticise the GSD just reveals that you lack a mind of your own and are more than a tad obsessed with your GSD and your Chief Minister! Get REAL mate! The situation we are living in Gib is UNACCEPTABLE in a First World Territory WHOSOEVER may be in Government!
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteKaelan, I can see why you have assumed the contradiction; I repeat no excuses, and put in another way, I am not trying to defend an obvious failing with regard to the very evident requirement for a modern power plant and which had been promised by now.
I have only highlighted realities and have gone further in reminding you that Britto admitted to the non delivery of one of the many proposals and commitments in the GSD manifesto.
My point is that there is a great deal more to consider when one considers the bigger picture and particularly so when you have a Govt accepting that variables and unknowns factor in a big way with environmental projects like this. The fact remains that the plant will happen albeit late. Think what you will of the oppositions promise regarding a carbon neutral Gib and consider the intentions and realities of that commitment in light of what we know today.
Consider also the volume of projects, standard of living, economic growth and general well being of this community before you chose to take knee jerk reactions.
I am not one to banter on, so suffice to say that this will be my last post on the topic .
I'll try and improve on my next pitch..:)
G
Ghost
ReplyDeleteI have one question, where was the vision about Gibraltar's power needs, the vision that the CM boasts so often that the GSD has and no one else has? If that vision existed ALL these issues would have been foreseen and planned for.
So there were hiccups but that does not explain why the Government was not ready to move quickly when these were overcome. It also shows that preplanning was belated any idiot knew that Gibraltar's power needs were not been adequately catered for, for years. The planning came too late and irrelevant projects were prioritised e.g. the air terminal and why? To appease Spain before looking after the needs of Gibraltar? To boot Spain has not laid a brick on its side and there are no flights to Madrid or any destination in Spain. Is that vision or just massive misjudgments?
Thank you Ghost, that was better! lololol :)
ReplyDeleteI don't believe Ghost to be a GSD hardcore, I wouldn't go that far. Just someone content with the way the GSD Government is running our current affairs, and unconvinced with the oppositions line up. Basically his views are OPPOSITE to mine. Kinda, maybe? Maybe not? hahhaha
And now for my SHOCK revelation...
I believe there to be TWO ghosts!! One who is indeed PRO GSD and the other who is "sitting on the fence" but slightly leaning towards the GSD side. The writing styles are so different at times. Hasn't anyone else noticed this?
K
An Omnibus says:
ReplyDeleteA 56 page Environment Plan for 2011 to follow up on the 2006 Environment Plan ! Yippee ! Less words,less documents, more action, please.
More tosh from Ghost. I would think that you were probably one that used to said that europort, the reclamation, etc during the time of the GSLP were white elephants. You most probably criticised everything the GSLP did. indeed you constantly mention the opposition, yet you just but just cannot get yourself to see reality.
ReplyDeleteI''ll just say to you that you are not only sad but very very shallow in your arguments.
I will in my next post with your blessing of course Robert explain that this power cuts situation has not happened in Gibraltar before. It was you Robert who wrote a piece called power cuts yet no strikes or thing similar.
Ghost the fact that the GSD have allowed Gibraltar to be a semi-concrete jungle and a development plan presented TEN yes TEN YEARS after it should have been done.
I would even be ashamed to mention the opposition at this stage, because you see you seem to have NOT realised that the GSLP/LIBS lost the last election and therefore mocking their policy just shows more shallowness on your part which to me is fine.
Quite frankly it might well be the last time I answer your post since your arguments are sooo flawed that you are just showing everyone the GSD's desperate situation.
So continue to exposed the tosh you expose.
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteRobert, I think the vision referred to is the one which we presently all enjoy today. If you are suggesting for one moment that there is perfection in anything let alone the leadership of an organization, community or country then you are leading a sheltered and black or white existence, which i seriously doubt, but hey stranger things have happened.
The fact that you of all people fail to accept that a project of this nature comes with variables out of anyones control is quite frankly beyond me. An environmental project of this sort which includes, site location, assessment , planning, tender, not to mention legal injunction by nearby residents and continuous opinion on whether other options should be exhausted before committing...........we wouldn't want another Theatre Royal would we?
That vision thing Robert could not be more in your face, the fact that you fail or refuse to see it and choose to pick only at misgivings (which I admit there are) is not becoming of a person with your natural intellect.
The bigger picture is a far cry from the nit picks that you continue to fuel.
Regardless and against my better judgement, I still hold you in high regard and pray for the poor souls you might bury tomorrow on viewpoint..:)
Look forward to seeing you.
G
Ghost
ReplyDeleteYou jest! Providing a basic commodity like electric power is one of the fundamental responsibilities of a government. Variables have to be foreseen in good time and overcome well before capacity is reached. Gibraltar is underpowered massively. This evidences belated decision making amounting to negligence.
This is huge lack of vision showing that vision in other areas was skewed ... no, in fact, short sighted. It is not an environmental project. It is the provision of an essential for our economy and our lifestyle. How much money has been lost to the economy and individual businesses for which they will not receive compensation?
This is not a nit pick. It is a fundamental that you simply dismiss with weak and unconvincing excuses. It is a major failure of the GSD government viewed from any perspective.
And on compensation ... well it is actually prohibited by law since Sir Joshua passed that law in the times of yore when there were trade union inspired power cuts. I will check but for memory I believe it was an amendment to the Public Utilities Act.
I do not intend to bury anyone on GBC Viewpoint tomorrow but will make my points forcefully ...
ReplyDeleteGhost says:
ReplyDeleteRobert you fail to grasp the point again. It is most definitely part of an environmental plan and has been referred to as such.
I have accepted on more than one occasion now that Govt's action in this matter has been short of the mark.
I choose to argue my point based on the bigger picture, and not singularly highlight, as evidence,the failing to provide a power plant on time. The vision is a cohesion of things, power plant, an air terminal, fundamental infrastructure, traffic planning, low taxes, sensible growth,and much more and will be judged on its collective merits.
And I thought you'd missed me.
G
Great!! Ghost keep it up your are definately getting there since by the lack of substance you are proving that if you are a GSD sympathiser (at least!!) then it is showing how the government got it wrong. No foresight, wrong vision and then trying to justify the unjustifable!!
ReplyDeleteHaving a "vision" for how Gibraltar should develop requires a keen appreciation of real priorities and a balanced approach to government. Hindsight is always 20/20 and it is therefore easy to find fault after any event but our power generation problems have been steadily worsening for many years. Our current situation should consequently come as no surprise to anyone.
ReplyDeleteThe reality is that Gibraltar's economy and reputation is taking a big knock as a result of the ever more frequent power cuts. I wonder, if we had detailed enough figures, would Gib's GDP show either stagnation or a dip like the UK's did during December's poor winter weather? Yesterday's news that two flights had to be diverted to Malaga because of power failures just looked amateurish.
The reality is that we are likely years away from having a new power station. Taking this into account, together with the ever increasing cost of the raw fuel and the environmental consequences of local generation, isn't there an ever stronger case for having a backup connection into a neighbouring country's grid? For those nervous about such a prospect, this could mean Morocco for instance...
I think what has happened re: the power cuts is merely the 'subconscious straw that broke the camel's back'. Anyone who looks into the stars will view this as a warning or a sign!! The situation's getting really dull...... ITS TIME FOR A CHANGE. But that doesn't mean the GSLP would do things any better. They are too concerned on pointing out the negative rather than be more proactive and positive. That has forever been the GSLP ethos and this is why the GSLP aren't the solution. They are but a bunch of ego inflated narcissists with a fervent desire to 'rule the roost' and would be no better. The GSD has provided us with a sound and robust administration on the whole. All it needs now is for the top banana to bow out gracefully and give way to the new generation within the party. Alternatively, Gibraltar may want to speak their minds and vote for the 'brains' and see where that takes us.... a coalition? It may just work.....
ReplyDeleteBy the way Kaelan, I don't think there are two Ghosts or one of the Ghosts would have gotten narked and pointed out that he had an imposter, no?
Awsome assessment by CC!
ReplyDeleteJust heard on GBC radio that the GSLP/Lib Alliance aren't sending a representative to Viewpoint tonight to discuss 'the Election Year'. The PDP, GSD are represented, joined by two political commentators (our much loved Robert being one). What does the GSLP/Lib have to hide? What are they scared of: that they can't get their act together? That they are as disjointed and visionless as rumour has it? Surely this would have been an opportunity for them to have their say and show Gib they're a Govt-in-waiting? Ahi la han ca**do! And even though I've been a supporter of them for years, I have to agree with Cynical Cindy on her assessment of them.
ReplyDeleteIf anybody else from the GSD starts citing "the legal injunction of 2010" as an excuse for the power station not being ready on time I will blow my top! This is what the 2007 GSD manifesto said about the new/old power stations;
ReplyDelete"Waterport Power Station, OESCO Station and MOD Power Station WILL BE CLOSED This is one of the best pieces of environmental news for residents of the South District and the Westside / Waterport areas. All three of Gibraltar’s existing, old power stations which are located in or near residential areas will be closed by 2010."
CLOSED BY 2010.ie NEW POWER STATION READY IN 2010.
When was the "legal injunction" started? 2010!
Now it’s 2011 and they have not even awarded the tender to build the new power station!!!! Forget “not-even-a-brick-has-been-laid” they haven’t even signed on the dotted line.
So stop saying that this legal injunction has got anything to do with ANYTHING – it is a TOTAL RED HERRING.
Ghost, you can environmental-project-this, and variables-and-unforseeables-that all you want but the bottom line is this. The core reason that this project has been delayed, not just through this parliament but in the previous parliament, is because ONE GUY is making all the decisions, and he demonstrably cannot make all those decisions in a timely manner. RESULT? = Gibraltar does not function at anywhere near the speed or efficiency at which is CAN and SHOULD.
You want to know about prioritizing? Forget building the airport before you have the power station to run the air con. Our CM is designing our bus shelters and deciding where the public toilets should be located. He is doing EVERTHING ……EVERYTHING!
I have said it before. Gibraltar is rotting from the inside out. CAUSE - one man's unshakable belief that he is the only person capable of making the right decision. The power cuts are only a visible manifestation of a dry rot that has a grip of the whole of Gibraltar. Our civil service / public utilities / government agencies are neutered.
Hindsight is 20/20 vision, as Paco rightly points out, and yes Ghost, its very easy to shoot people down once something has gone wrong (in this case powercuts). But what YOU have to understand is that power cuts are a SYMPTOM of the problem not the PROBLEM ITSELF. And don’t bring the oppositions “carbon neutral” rubbish into this. I flipping hate the opposition more than I hate the current style of Governance. The issue here is HOW GIBRALTAR IS RUN and it is run by our CURRENT GOVERNMENT, so LEAVE THE OPPOSITION OUT OF THIS.
I was at the Energy symposium and it was made quite clear there that i) all our generators are at the end of their life span and ii) when generators get to the end of their life span breakdowns increase exponentially. The GEA’s explanation this morning that “Gibraltar has never had protection again this unprecedented unpredictable blah blah blah” just doesn’t wash. Twenty years ago every generator in Gibraltar was not at the end of its best-before date, today they are. Therefore this “we have never been protected against this multiple failure before” is irrelevant. We have never BEEN IN THIS SITUATION BEFORE because our generators have NEVER BEEN IN THIS STATE BEFORE!
(as an aside the 2007 GSD manifesto also said that the Government would pay for our new power station with 70 million from the Eastside development. I honestly didn’t think that the Government could make so make money from allowing wealthy property developers to trash our beaches by dumping building rubble into the sea for free. Well done on that one Pete).
Electoral reform which reflects the way Gibraltar would be welcome. But a lot of important decisions in Gibraltar do not require the involvement of our parliament. They are purely executive decisions made by one person. That power needs to be controlled and subject to public scrutiny- either through parliament or simply by the obligation to conduct public affairs in public. If we had more information about public administration we would be able to make better judgments about how well our Government is doing.
ReplyDeleteAnd to all those GSD sycophants who will complain that Gibraltar would get bogged down should we control our leaders a little more,,,,well for Gods sake - look around you - Gibraltar is bogged down. The bog is on the CM's desk and cause he can't get through the pile quick enough. Gibraltar is slowly grinding to a halt. Prime example...power cuts.
CC
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily.
All is fair in, love, war and.....politics ;)
As for these comments; "The GSD has provided us with a sound and robust administration"
WHAT robust administration?
YES men and PUPPETS don't count as "robust" administration. It's a ONE MAN show and we all know it. Similar to what Bossano used to do when the GSLP was in power and something I do not agree with.
No one should be given THAT much power nor have it for SO LONG. Do you REALLY believe the CM will STAND DOWN? hahahahaahhahahahahahahahahahahaha Si si and pigs......
As for these comments:
"GSLP aren't the solution. They are but a bunch of ego inflated narcissists with a fervent desire to 'rule the roost' "
The EXACT SAME THING could be said about the GSD or could it not? The words Inflated ego, fervent desire to 'rule the roost' and narcissist all bring a certain person to mind.........LOL Come on I shall give you three attempts lets see if you can "guess"?
1.....
K
The new generation within the party is Feetham and he is the answer!
ReplyDeleteKaelan,
ReplyDeleteI am by no means a fan of Mr. Caruana, but please do not compare their achievements with those of the previous GSLP administration, who plunged GIbraltar's reputation and credibility into the floor with the way they ran the show!
Gibraltar will once again be sorry if they let in a GSLP government, but Caruana has to go as well!!
WE need change, dont these megalomaniacs get the hint?
to Anon 09:39 to say that "And even though I've been a supporter of them for years" Don't believe this and what you might have been for years is a S**t stirrer. an one who supports a party first finds out why they are not going then they can make an informed cooment on whether they are right or wrong to have taken the decision. You have been informed by GBC on Radio not by the parties in question.
ReplyDeleteCindy I concur!
ReplyDeleteWhat people do not realise though is that only Joe Bossano is left from the GSLP line up of the past! I even have stated this on LLW before.
Furthermore I have also made it clear that I am not a big fan of Joe. Even though I sincerely believe he has been tainted beyond repair by mistakes primarily made by those around him.
Joe time is up he should gracefully stand down and give way to a new generation. He needs to realise that our people will continue to vote negatively because of him (in my humble opinion of course).
Caruana and his Arch Nemesis Joe have been the two main men in Gibraltar politics for far too long. I have seen people state in LLW before that no one comes close to them in terms of charisma and intellect. This could be true (as both of them are great men) BUT why not let someone else try and lead OUR Gibraltar? We might be pleasantly surprised. :)
If only there was another party out there with depth and vision (PDP lacks depth but not vision!).
If only.......
K
its a pity because 8 years ago the labour party showed promise, and a few years of experience would have had them overtaking all the opposition parties with ease, including the GSLP, as many who thought JB's time was up would have naturally emigrated to their ranks.
ReplyDeleteAt the time, their criticism of the GSD, and Caruana in particular, was spectacular. Danny is well-known for uttering the words '...a este hay que quitarlo de qualquiera manera!' when referring to the CM.
Yet, when the GSD, in their usual 'sith-lord' approach to silencing all opposition, be it parties, unions, lobbying associations or pressure groups, offered them the chance to play with the Government's toy-box, they sold-out faster than candles in Morrisons today.
Una lastima!
Danny is the future of the GSD? Maybe that explains why it was Danny and not Jaime Netto that issued the challenge to Neil Costa on social services in today's Chronic. But could we read something else into this? Is the GSD availing itself of this opportunity to remind everyone who is calling for Nigel's resignation from the FSC that it is Danny and not Nigel who is active in politics?
ReplyDeleteWhat, no GSLP Libs rep on tonight's Viewpoint? I find that very hard to believe. GSD and PDP plus two independent commentators? I am aware that one of them is Robert Vasquez, which is great - but, if true (about no GSLP Libs rep), I hope the other one isn't Dom Searle of the Chronic yet again. GBC, give somebody else a chance, will you.
I think that 'Caruana and his Arch Nemesis Joe' are holding on because THEY don't feel there is anyone worthy enough for them to 'relinquish' their titles to.
ReplyDeleteWe need new blood in Gibraltarian politics, we need a real democracy where the electorate has a real choice and is not forced to vote for the lesser of two evils!
Tonight's view point: I predict a damp sqib affair where everyone agrees with each other -
ReplyDeleteI find it hard to accept when people bring in Nigel as the force behind Daniel Feetham!! Daniel formed part of the GSLP, when he got duped by some in the party, it was Daniel, not Nigel, who had the brains to realise the party was a dead end (how right he was, looking 10 years later!) he had the initiative and clout to form his own party, which by the way did extraordinarily well for a newcoming party if you compare the Labour Party with other new parties that have emerged historically in the political scene. Then, Daniel surely realised, that a third party was next to never going to get a break (thanks to our outdated system) and joined in with the GSD. Now, if we are going to accuse him of 'selling out' then a black mark should be placed next to 80% at least of our political figures throughout modern Gibraltar. Reggie Valarino, George Mascarenhas, to name but a few, have unashamedly crossed the field more times than George Best! Thats the way its always been in Gib politics. And the reason for that is quite simply that in essence, both parties generally want the same thing for Gibraltar. They want a firm grip on Spain, development and general amelioration of facilities and society in general in Gibraltar, and sound domestic and external policies. The only difference between the parties is really the figurehead and his interaction with our people. This is why its so important to have someone who is loved and entrusted by GIbraltar. And this is probably what Daniel Feetham has been aping to achieve. He has worked solidly since his inception in the political realm, achieving much for Gibraltar and our society. To credit his brother Nigel, who has not once stood for election, with the efforts made by Daniel is rude and ignorant to say the very least, especially in view of the fact that Daniel who is the eldest of the two brothers has been an overachieving litigator for a great number of years. I think he has been capable of carving out his own achievements...... and if anyone has any doubts..... lets not forget his tremendous 'bounce back' from his life threatening stabbing only a few months ago. Sorry but petty banter is negative and counterproductive and it grates on me.
ReplyDeleteCredit where credit is due.
Ah well done anon at 19:57 for recalling Georgie Best.In 1999, GB was voted 11th at the IFFHS European Player of the Century election, and 16th in the World Player of the Century election. Pelé named him as one of the 125 best living footballers in his 2004 FIFA 100 list and Best was named 19th, behind Gerd Müller, at the UEFA Golden Jubilee Poll. In his native Northern Ireland, the admiration for him is summed up by the local saying: "Maradona good; Pelé better; George Best."
ReplyDeleteGeorge will always be remembered as one of the first celebrity footballers, but his extravagant lifestyle led to problems with alcoholism which curtailed his playing career and eventually led to his death in November 2005 at the age of 59. In 2007, GQ named him as one of the 50 most stylish men of the past 50 years (a bit like Robert Vasquez but better looking). As a good Nortern Irish patriot George often stood up for Gibraltar.
Anonymous at 19:56
ReplyDeleteI do not think so. Do not prejudge it. Watch it!
An Omnibus says:
ReplyDeleteCC, Stilleto and other free-thinkers get my vote. I hate the purely partisan posters (PPP's) in here, you can smell them a mile off.
We need change, and we need new blood. Not necessarily a change in the governing party, but a change in Chief Minister leading a new younger, radical team with fresh ideas.
I trust D. Feetham more than Picardo, simply because he is the less Machiavellian of the two. Picardo encouraged Feetham to form the Labour party, and he gave Feetham assurances that he would join him in the new party. Once he saw Feetham out of the way the road was clear for him to advance his selfish leadership aspirations within the GSLP. I don't trust Picardo. I am certain he would just be comfortable enough sitting in Parliament as a careerist Leader of the Opposition, as most of our current crop of politicians seemingly do, spouting the same old rhetoric over and over again. That goes for Caruana, Bossano,Holliday, Britto and the rest of the established political class.
Robert I think that I am not the only viewer tonight who is abseluteley thrilled to hear that you are putting together a team of free thinkers to debunk the parties at the next election. People like you and intellectuals like Charles Gomez could re-energise democracy in Gibraltar. The fact that the GSLP flunked tonight's Viewpoint really does show thart they are finished and this is the time to strike.
ReplyDeleteWell done Robert... Gibraltar needs more people like yourself. You are a credit to our society and proof that there is hope for individuality and free speech! Thank you
ReplyDeleteGhost says:
ReplyDeleteRobert an impressive performance and truly well balanced from you part.
Well done.
G
Post match review:
ReplyDeleteDominic. Very good as always I just wish you'd get a bit angrier. You're just too mellow. I would vote for you if you stood. Let's have lunch.
Louis. Well you speak well, and let's face it you had the toughest job on the panel. But "giving the people too much power" and "we got lots money everything is grand" approach reflects the core gsd problem. You don't understand what people are pissed off about. Have a coffee with Dom he'll set you straight.
Nick. You're an angry man Nick and tonight it worked to your advantage. Tonight you went from a PDP liability to an asset. You just got to look a little less like you want to kill everyone when you walk down the street. That and believe in your party a little more. Dominic will give you media and people training. While you're at it get Keith some smile lessons.
Robert. Not convinced by your plan Robbie.
GSLP. No show. Pray caruana calls a late one you lost a lot of votes tonight.
To the girl in high heels (or man) and Omnibus. Concentrate on the present not the past. I have always voted for DF but to keep dragging up what happened in 2002 is tiresome and I am sure even he would see it that way. Also, you couldn't stick a sheet of paper between these two brothers so I am not sure what your on about.
ReplyDeleteRobert, once again...
ReplyDeleteChapour
It was absolutely shocking to hear the GSD rep saying something about not having to give the people (electorate) the power or words to that effect. I think it just goes shows what makes the GSD tick these days.
Certainly food for thought
Independents can only be good for democracy, so Robert well done....but whatever you do carry on this great work at llanitoworld.... This is really good for all of us. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteHey come on people, the guy did not mean it that way. What he was saying was that proportional rep leads to coalition and weak governments. Not that the people should not have more power.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 23:53
ReplyDeleteProportional representation does NOt of necessity lead to weak government it leads to representative government, which does not have to be weak. These arguments for autocracy is how Hitler was elected in Germany. Is this the system we want. Lets be a real democracy politicians owe us that.
That is nonsense Robert. It is precisely the arguments canvassed by mainstream political parties and politicians in the UK when debating the issue. There is nothing Hitlerite about it. Look at Italy. It's a mess with no one being able to govern.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 00:03
ReplyDeleteNonsense is to speak of democracy existing in Gibraltar. Who said it was hitlerite, I did not! I said Hitler was elected.
A good example of coalition government is Italy, say no more...... Unfortunately they tend to be weak....however, I strongly believe in individuals standing as independents. Even coalitions in opposition are weak, good example GSLP/liberals.....can't even agree to send someone to Viewpoint...que verguenza......
ReplyDeleteWhy parliament when we have llanito world.... Frankly I enjoy and learn about politics much more than listening to the politicians.....Aqua no hay rollo, pan pan vino vino.....
ReplyDeleteWell done GBC !!! James, Robert, Nick, Louis & Dominic gave us a great debate.Interesting & balanced, giving plenty of food for thought!
ReplyDeleteHow on earth can the opposition justify not attending the debate.... What are they playing at.... We the people pay them a very good salary to be in politics, para que ? A hora saldran con excuses....enough is enough.... Sort yourselves out or leave politics....
ReplyDeleteDaniel Feetham is one of the best (and safest) pair of hands in Gibraltar politics and the only alternative to the heavy-weight political champion Caruana
ReplyDeleteAnon 3 February 2011 19:57 you're right
Very well done to Searle Cruz and Vasquez - y mu wena Robe
Was Montegriffo talking and yawning at the same time or was he trying not to burp?
Que bajo, use another tactic to hit at the GSD pich.... I for one thought he did quite well, por lo menus dio la car a no comp otro partido...
ReplyDeleteI totally agree that the electeral system needs to be changed and that the only people capable of changing it are the voters. People are yet to realise that we employ the goverment and that we, therefore have a right to choose who we employ.
ReplyDeletesi la cara la dio y bien da...
ReplyDeleteWot Robe, y mucha gente ya, estan diciendo del GSD in Llanito speak is:
ReplyDeleteCara dura y por la cara = DEMOCRATIC DEFICIT
y, if we don't change this, the next Chief can employ the same formula. It's happened many times before. Right?
Roberto, cuantos mas independientes van a salir del closet?
ReplyDeleteWate aqui hay tomate!
ReplyDeleteOur democracy ends as soon as the new goverment gets elected, all electeral promises are forgotten and with the phrase "It is this government's policy" they do as they please and get away with it
ReplyDeleteAnon 18:07
ReplyDeleteFair point.
Anon 19:57/00:33
Pero esto que es el Daniel Feetham appreciation Society? Por favor! Let’s keep it real anda.
As for tonight’s View Point....
Nick – Well spoken and articulate but you seemed to lack self belief and were clearly rattled when questioned about your party’s chances of winning these coming elections. Unconvinced are we? One word of advice the “Vote for the policies and not the candidates” slogan reeks of desperation, don’t use it lol. Score: 6/10
David – Boring stuff, neutral and to the point. By sticking to the facts and remaining impartial you can hardly go wrong can you? You came across as cold and unemotional. Not political candidate material in my opinion. Score: 7/10
Louis – Everything is just grand in Gibraltar and the GSLP Government destroyed our reputation over 15 years ago. Yes yes. Well done. That was great! Thank you for repeating the same old dribble all GSD sycophants do on a daily basis. Did you REALLY have to go live on GBC View Point to do so? NEWSFLASH – the perfect Gibraltar you portray does not exist. YES the opposition f*@ked up many years ago, but what is important is the here and the now.
Stop patronising your people, be humble, admit your flaws and rectify them! Earn our respect and THEN our votes! Score: 5/10
Robert – Your statements where concise and to the point (the others just dragged on). Furthermore your ideology is something I truly believe in! It could indeed work! Next time though (if there is a next time) I’d like to see a bit more passion! Score: 8/10
GSLP/Libs – Sorry no one showed up. You just lost a shit load of political brownie points. Score: 0/10
James Neish – I liked your tie. I bet you got it from Napolean! :)
K
For the gsd guy who said governments need to govern. Get real man nobody is suggesting they shouldn't be able to govern, we just want a little more openess and control. + check it out, right now we got one guy doing everything and things still don't get done. Think power cuts.
ReplyDeletePs Robert , when are you going to write about the use of the civil contingencies act (designed for terrorism and natural disaster) to get people out of a dangerous building (which, nothing to do with anything, is right next to another major project).
It`s been a long time since Viewpoint was as interesting as last night. To me, it remains clear that the GSD still don`t get it, if Montegriffo`s contribution is anything to go by. Vasquez and Cruz are definately on the right track with regard to democratic enhancement and electoral and Parliamentary reform - which the GSD promised at the last election and have failed to deliver.
ReplyDeleteI will, at the next election be voting for individuals, and not block voting a party and both Cruz and Vasquez ( should he stand as an independant) have got my vote - for sure !!
I hope a number of individuals stand for election this time round as per Robert's suggestion, as I too would vote for them! Time for us to stand up and be counted. Let's retake the control and employ who we want NOT whom we "don't but better the devil you know.."
ReplyDeleteI had never taken much time to listen to Nick Cruz. I'd always heard Keith Azopardi, or their spokesman Kayron Pozo. In my view he did very well. He did not lie to the electorate when he was handed a loaded question in the guise of the PDP heading a majority government, the policies he was advocating: increased MPs to include backbenchers, 2 year terms on CMs (which I know that both Robert and a lot of you are against, but I particularly like), and their 21 point plan seemed appealing.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dominic Searle's assessment of the PDP; good meaning policies but not the heavyweight line up that they might need to convince an electorate too used to voting for image/style over substance.
As for the GSLP? I'm glad they didn't turn up. Otherwise we would get more of the same of what happens in Parliament. The debate would have turned into a debacle. Anyways it's been highlighted before in this blog that the GSLP mentality is pretty much the same as the GSD mentality even if they have distinct policies. No time for the old guard to be honest.
I agree with some of the earlier posts with regards to your performance Robert; good, intelligent debate that gives food for thought for those in the electorate that have become accustomed to voting down party lines. I for one however would have appreciated a teeny bit more enthusiasm from you when talking about your ideas.
However now is the time for not only you Robert, but for the rest of us that believe in independents / more representative government to talk to other people non stop until the message is out there and people have an informed choice come voting time. There should be no respite from here until the CM sets out a date for the election.
Last night's viewpoint was the weirdest ever. An absent GSLP, Robert with a vague idea of establishing some sort of government by committee, Nick Cruz admitting defeat even before the contest started and Louis Montegriffo just reading out of the GSD manifesto all night long. Heavens above.
ReplyDeleteI think the way forward is, and always has been, to vote for individuals. The time is right for change, as enough people are thinking this way, and therefore can effect real change. The disillusion felt is great and prevalent. It has been said that people get the government they deserve, so let's vote for the best candidates and ensure that we get the best, which is what we deserve.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 10:16
ReplyDeleteYou were obviously watching a different program than all other commentators and me! I said nothing about government by committee. You have invented that. Why be destructive and critical from a disingenous perspective? Why do't you take the positive out of tghe dbate rather than cast negative vibes on everything? Try it, your life will be a better one for it.
The PDP need to understand that PEOPLE and NOT POLICIES win elections. Until then they will never stand a REAL chance of winning.
ReplyDeleteK
Ghost says:
ReplyDeleteRobert I agree....its tough for me to agree with, almost against my nature and better judgment, but your thoughts on taking the good out of a political debate which had substance across the board are justified.
The fact that there was agreement on issues from all sides as well as intelligent debate and counter arguments, speaks volumes and is precisely what should be expected from commentators, representatives and politicians across the board…… something that the GSLP have lacked since one can remember.
G
I am all for Robert's suggestion of voting for independents etc, but my great fear is that if many of us vote that way, we might dilute the "non GSD" votes and in doing so, help the GSD gain the majority again!
ReplyDeleteI believe that the PDP need some more quality people. In my taste Cruz and Azopardi have what it takes, it's just that all the extra baggage might be hard to swallow.
ReplyDeleteSaying that though with a GSD Government there is PLENTY of baggage that people DO swallow.
So maybe the policies do matter no K?
Fascinating comment by Valery Giscard D'Estaing (ex French President, chairman of the EU constitutional conference), that party manifestos are nothing more than a sales pitch & not to be taken literally. Your thoughts, Robert?
ReplyDelete"The PDP need to understand that PEOPLE and NOT POLICIES win elections."...
ReplyDeleteSorry.. I don`t agree with that. All of the issues that have been widely discussed in this forum such as parliamentary/electoral reform have long been advocated by the PDP (whilst Govt and the Opposition have been sitting on their wotsits). Most of us here are of the view that there needs to be major change in the way Parliament and our MP`s go about their business. Policies are what will give us the reform we need - not people.
F and Anon 14:50
ReplyDeleteAnon 14:49 highlights a very interesting point, which is intertwined with my comments in regards to PEOPLE and NOT POLICIES winning elections.
The right candidate as the right sales person, will have you believe just about anything.
It is not about WHAT you offer it is about HOW you offer it. That is the point I am trying to put across.
K
I would like to elaborate on what I posted earlier as I've been motivated by what Anon 14:50 posted.
ReplyDeleteI personally agree with Anon's stance. The policies SHOULD be the deciding factors in elections, however it seems that in Gibraltar, the electorate, opt to go for the faces.
As I posted earlier, style over substance.
I can't speak for K however. I'm inclined to say he's being a pragmatist, and calls it like he sees it.
People in Gibraltar have to realise that there is life beyond the GSD, GSLP and PDP. It's up to us as individuals who believe in more representations to tell our parents, brothers, sisters, spouses, sons, daughters, and friends of all of the above.
F
ReplyDeleteI love that word "pragmatist" ;) hahaha
K
BLOCK VOTES BLOCKED MINDS
ReplyDelete