tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post3344660880174199032..comments2023-05-19T13:43:33.131+02:00Comments on LLanito World: Am I Dishonest - the Andorran Constitutional Model Debated?Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comBlogger135125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-36000142306787503402010-12-03T10:49:43.188+01:002010-12-03T10:49:43.188+01:00Ghost......
I think we will agree to disagree. :)...Ghost......<br /><br />I think we will agree to disagree. :)<br /><br />Your arguments are very well structured, but have not swayed my manner of thinking.<br /><br />On a last note I would like to thank you for your compliments and for finding the time to respond to my posts.<br /><br />Ps- My girl friend also gets annoyed when I spend to much time responding to posts be it on Facebook or on Mr. Vazquez’s blog :)<br /><br />Ta <br /><br /><br />KKaelan Joycenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-58651355444166250472010-12-02T18:35:04.173+01:002010-12-02T18:35:04.173+01:00Ghost says:
Kaelan, great character analysis! I h...Ghost says:<br /><br />Kaelan, great character analysis! I have to say that I agree with you and thought that myself, I would not say he was flustered though he’s way too arrogant for that, but he did have to think carefully on how he worded what has clearly become the subject of contention for many. Little did the CM know that he would need to have to justify his statements to his own.<br /> <br />You fail to realize that you have in fact made my point for me, he was apprehensive about the comment, he not only included a caveat prior to the statement making it clear that he represents the people and his obligation was to protect the rights of Gibraltarians, and not subject them to anything that in any way weakens or affects the very position that he has fought for over the past 15 years. He also adds (and I’ve said this before) that he is not and it is not his brief to indoctrinate anything over the people of Gibraltar and that any decision on any future status would be subject to a referendum. To clarify further on the Andorra element and to use your own words as quoted by the Chronicle “"Chief Minister Peter Caruana has declared that he would personally support an Andorra STYLE – POST 1993 CONSTITUTION - status for Gibraltar as part of a negotiated political settlement with Britain and Spain if it were on offer." STYLE being the operative word in this quote, although the correct translation also includes that he might see as “POSSIBLE” that the Andorra STYLE might be something he would bring to the table for us to decide on under and I say yet again – a Referendum! <br />So you ask why might he have been, not anxious, flustered or avoiding eye contact (I’ll excuse you on that punt), but rather meticulous with his wording. Do you really expect us to believe that it was because he had arrived at the climax of his plan to coerce Spain, Britain and Gibraltar into Joint Sovereignty? Kaelan, you strike me as a bright young character (I recall your valid and well structured arguments on the Dolphinarium) and judging by your writing, thought and style, you are one to question grey areas and able to see the bigger picture….I mean all of this with the greatest of respect. <br /><br />I ask then to truly consider what PRC has achieved and so furiously fought for (most evident in the Seville forum) and tell me really that you believe his intention in that forum was anything other than to inform misconceived journalists and politicians in Spain or their rightful democratic duties, not just to us, but to themselves and to explain the great strides that Gibraltar has taken as a collective community to become what in fact Andorra is not, transparent as an economy, highly regulated as a finance centre, and addressed by the OECD as in compliance……..maybe that’s why Sarkozy was showing muscle.<br /><br />Robert ventures into debates related to Andorra, which I think are worthy of consideration and I think there is great mileage to discuss how an Andorra model may in future serve as an example of what we should be seeking as we move forward. To finalize in Caruana’s words, any offer from Spain would be good, we have had none in the past 300 years, and if we agree with Robert in that Spain holds the key (as I do), then in the spirit of negotiation and progress and in order to simply move forward, we ought to stand proud and confident that we are Gibraltarians with every right to accept or REJECT offers whilst maintaining our dignity and diplomacy….vuti..:)<br /><br />Y aqui me planto, otherwise I’ll get the classic “el peaso de Ghost” or worse still my wife, whom at present is on the verge of setting up a forum of dialogue open to wives or partners of partners obsessed con el pasao de Robert….:)Now that really would be a frightening prospect !<br /><br />GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-85567056804240030092010-12-02T16:26:05.016+01:002010-12-02T16:26:05.016+01:00Please post this one instead missed 2 typos on las...Please post this one instead missed 2 typos on last one! :) ta<br /><br />Ghost thank you for your reply.<br /><br />I was already aware of the roots of the aforementioned "Scotsman” newspaper and did take the article with a pinch of salt. Please note though that other more reputable sources also supported the information provided by "The Scotsman". One example being the Gibraltar Chronicle, which headlined an article in the following manner ; "Chief Minister Peter Caruana has declared that he would personally support an Andorra style - post-1993 constitution - status for Gibraltar as part of a negotiated political settlement with Britain and Spain if it were on offer."<br />Technicalities aside the CM did indeed say that he was open to talks regarding an Andorra type "arrangement" for Gibraltar. I also saw the YouTube Video and very clearly heard what the CM said. Furthermore his body language indicated he was feeling rather anxious when relating to the Andorra "arrangement". If you look at the video closely you will see that the CM raises his hands, gestures and even looks into the desk in front of him (avoiding eye contact in the process). Why was he flustered by this and even more worryingly WHY did he even bring the subject up? It just does not make sense. One thing is responding to a proposal and quite another making the proposal oneself!<br /><br />In my opinion the CM no longer understands the people of Gibraltar or their needs, being to self absorbed in his own personal quest (I shall not go into that now) to be able to do so.<br />We need a CM who can relate to the general public and the common Gibraltarian. A CM who does not think himself superior to those around him and actually has the peoples interests at heart, which I sincerely believe our current CM no longer does. The CM has demonstrated on numerous occasions via a sequence of events that he is NOW more concerned with his own personal legacy than with the needs of his own people. <br /><br />I must admit I was once a fan of the CM, even though I never supported his political party in any of the previous elections as an apolitical stance has always been my preferred stance of choice, until now. I am certainly not Pro Bossano (as many assume due) even though I do believe he has been victimised for far too long for mistakes that those around him primarily made. <br />These days though I think it is time for a change. <br /><br />I am not a lawyer, politician or anyone of note just a mere Gibraltarian providing an insight to a commons man perspective. The common man, which incidentally makes up for over 88% of Gibraltar’s population. The people of Gibraltar will never forgive the CM and his minions for sabotaging National Day and attempting to dissolve the identity of our people. This is the general public consensus regardless of what the polls say. <br />His sugar coated presentation of the Andorra “arrangement” was just the icing on the cake! <br /><br />The “Winton boys” had obvious flaws but al least they were patriotic!! 100% llanito bruva ;) Never give in, never Surrender, NEVER EVER SPANISH!! 100% <br /><br />Ps- bruva is not a typo it is an intentional error!Kaelan Joycenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-80900660050850834302010-12-02T15:02:04.129+01:002010-12-02T15:02:04.129+01:00New Blogger says...
Mr Caruana has let the cat out...New Blogger says...<br />Mr Caruana has let the cat out of the bag. I do not care much about what people like Ghost and even "Shame on you!!!" says to try and justify the FACT that MR Caruana is willing to recommend to us a Joint Sovereignty formula to us. <br /><br />No wonder he termed the Blair and Aznar joint sovereignty deal as "DONE DEAL". It's because it was not DONE by him, that is CARUANA.<br /><br />No wonder he has always insisted and actually did it, that is to remove the slogan NO CONCESSIONS on National Day. <br />He is willing to give concessions. <br />He is willing to give half of our sovereignty to at least a Spanish Bishop who incidently was representing the Foreign Ministry of Spain when the 1993 new constitution for Andorra was cooked up.<br /><br />So those trying hard to justify will fail miserably to convince me he is not a CM who is willing to give up fundamental things to Spain.<br /><br />By the way for those who might think I am of the PDP or GSLP or even GSD forget it since I have always voted for individuals who I think are capable of governing Gibraltar and Mr Caruana was one of them. Definately NOT NOW.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-36746197646076156732010-12-02T13:44:23.618+01:002010-12-02T13:44:23.618+01:00High Rent says:It is not just the Scotsman, that o...High Rent says:It is not just the Scotsman, that other paper of record "GibLive" of "Monaco (sic)Ocean Village" titles its story: "Caruana wants Gib like Andorra" - if GibLive says so it must be true. On another note why is the Liberal party so quiet about the Andorrean story - do Dr. Garcia, Rubio Linares and Nils Costa perhaps agree with PRC QC CM?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-26912435206941491982010-12-02T13:07:03.832+01:002010-12-02T13:07:03.832+01:00Hound Dog
I would have thought there was a massiv...Hound Dog<br /><br />I would have thought there was a massive difference between two neighbours bullying a smaller neighbour who is protected by British Sovereignty (Gibraltar)and a smaller neighbour (Andorra) who is being bullied by the President of one of the neighbours (France), who also happens to be the Head of State of that smaller neighbour (Andorra) and to boot the other larger neighbour (Spain) has one of its Bishops as the other Head of State of the smaller neighbour (Andorra). <br /><br />Do you not see the difference? What chance did Andorra have?Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-55506268741361858232010-12-02T11:26:48.395+01:002010-12-02T11:26:48.395+01:00Ghost says:
Kaelan, Thank you for your comments, ...Ghost says:<br /><br />Kaelan, Thank you for your comments, I think we all have a right to opinionate and this blog delivers a medium for us all to participate in. Given your firm stand on the matter and your belief that PRC was essentially preparing the ground for an offer of joint sovereignty, I see little point in trying to convince you of the realities in this matter. <br /><br />I will however refer to the fact that this frenzy of thought and interpretation began after the news feature published by a little known newspaper “The Scotsman” suggests that PRC has stated he wants joint sovereignty between Gibraltar and Spain. A statement which I believe to be entirely erroneous and I believe the content and substance of the debate / forum proves this. But back to the Scotsman…what Gibraltarian actually wakes up in the morning goes online and says mmmmmmmm the Scotsman let’s have read. <br /><br />Let’s not forget that the Scotsman owned by a national Spanish news network has in the past produced some pretty questionable descriptions of Gibraltar, to which all Gibraltarians collectively have refuted loudly and openly. But no, on this occasion we suddenly find truth in the Scotsman’s statement and without even questioning agenda the publication suddenly becomes a statement of fact that we are now all prepared to accept as truth and that our CM has over a breakfast in Seville sold GIb……WOW. I suggest that you re-visit the youtube recording of the 130 minute address and QA and then review the assertion by the Scotsman. You might also want to take note that the only Gibraltarian waking up bright and early to read the Scotsman on the 26th of Nov (the morning after the forum) was none other than Fabian Picardo who obviously felt that it was in the best interests of Gibraltarians to be aware of this diatribe and kindly posted it on his facebook page (or so I am told) I do not have access to his personal page.<br /><br />GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-10152303860349328102010-12-02T10:21:32.285+01:002010-12-02T10:21:32.285+01:00Hound Dog and Mark
I believe the article says mor...Hound Dog and Mark<br /><br />I believe the article says more than that ...<br /><br />But anyway, accepting for one moment your (and seeming the CM's) position that the Andorran model is not joint sovereignty, is it safe to deduce that what the CM wants for Gibraltar as a status for the future is independence? If os why has he always (including in the talk to the Europa Forum) say that this is not a viable status for Gibraltar? <br /><br />Anonymous at 22.20<br /><br />I am no one's messenger not even Fabian Picardo's. It just so happens that he posted that link on Facebook. I thought it would be a useful additional contribution to this debate. <br /><br />APOLOGIES TO ALL FOR ALL THE TYPO'S IN MY PREVIOUS POSTING ... DUE TO TIME PRESSURES!Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-7485274483883262832010-12-01T23:35:36.155+01:002010-12-01T23:35:36.155+01:00Anonymous
2010-22:20
Think we should have an a...Anonymous <br />2010-22:20<br /> <br />Think we should have an annual referendum PERHAPS? <br />I fully agree with the following text in your blog.<br />My obligation is to protect the (Gibraltarians) right to choose, and not to be victims of imposition, WHICH IS WHAT I DO. Let’s put it to the people of Gibraltar in a Referendum".<br />GFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-28030803626639492482010-12-01T22:53:05.044+01:002010-12-01T22:53:05.044+01:00That New York Times article says Sarkozy threatene...That New York Times article says Sarkozy threatened to renounce his co-princely title if Andorra did not play ball with the OECD on tax information exchange, which would have rendered the Andorra model arrangement rather lopsided.Marknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-60744537672811395852010-12-01T22:51:54.362+01:002010-12-01T22:51:54.362+01:00Robert,
Fabian Picardo has finally understood tha...Robert,<br /><br />Fabian Picardo has finally understood that microstates are susceptible to pressure from their larger neighbours. Wow!<br /><br />Hound DogAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-25571845456305204642010-12-01T22:20:49.277+01:002010-12-01T22:20:49.277+01:00Many here are assuming that 'Andorra-style'...Many here are assuming that 'Andorra-style' for Gibraltar is a fait accompli! <br /> <br />The key extracts in Mr Caruana's answer are: "My obligation is to protect their (Gibraltarians) right to choose, and not to be victims of imposition, which is what I do...Any (proposals) would be good, provided that they are freely accepted by the people of Gibraltar...let's put it to the people of Gibraltar in a Referendum".<br /><br />BTW Llanito World, are you know Fabian Picardo's messenger?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-77107844061841787792010-12-01T21:24:08.434+01:002010-12-01T21:24:08.434+01:00Fabian Picardo has suggested on Facebook those who...Fabian Picardo has suggested on Facebook those who think that Spain and France do not exercise sovereignty over Andorra should read the article at: <br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/28/business/global/28iht-andorra28.html?_r=1&ref=andorraLlanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-27316233049277087862010-12-01T21:15:52.216+01:002010-12-01T21:15:52.216+01:00How often have we heard from the CM that the Bruss...How often have we heard from the CM that the Brussels Agreement is dead and buried, meaning that negotiations on sovereignty are out of the question. What has replaced it, we are also told, is the Trilateral Forum, which is about neighbourly cooperation. Yet, the same CM would jump at an offer of an Andorra status for Gibraltar - which would entail sovereignty negotiations!<br /> Without entering into the debate about joint sovereignty yes or no, what is obvious is that by having two co-princes, or two 'governors' if you like, British sovereignty would be diluted.<br /> The extent of this dilution of power in Spain's favour is crystal clear by reading through the list of responsibilities of the two co-princes as recently reproduced in the Panorama, from the Andorra constitution.<br /> An Andorra status would thus give Spain a say in the affairs of Gibraltar. Is this what we have been fighting for? Is this what the vast majority want?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-27246336173661637432010-12-01T20:07:59.623+01:002010-12-01T20:07:59.623+01:00Llanito -01-12-2010
PRC has been reminding Gibral...Llanito -01-12-2010<br /><br />PRC has been reminding Gibraltarians over the years that Gibraltar was on the verge of (direct rule) when the GSLP was in power, which would have meant shared sovereignty with Spain.<br />The way many Gibraltarians see PRC is that he is under extreme pressure; his out of character behaviour since the tripartite talks started may be due to an ulterior motive in that he may simply be following the UK mandate of a joint sovereignty deal with Spain as expressed by Uk Government ministers over the last 50 years and recently by Tony Blair, Jack Straw, Peter Hain and other.<br /> I urge PRC to come clean, ANYONE CAN MAKE MISTAKES and consider his latest actions very carefully; Gibraltarians are fed up with his arrogance, dictatorial attitude, double talk, devious and deceitful replies. It has however been quite refreshing to find a final trace of humility on his part in deigning himself to write in the chronicle justifying his actions to one of his subjects.<br />God bless Gibraltar<br /><br />GFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-32758784727402226792010-12-01T20:04:33.065+01:002010-12-01T20:04:33.065+01:00SHAME ON YOU!!!! you are playing vile word games a...SHAME ON YOU!!!! you are playing vile word games and you allowed anons yesterday to say that I take onanistic pleasure from pictorial representations of the CM. That is disgusting!!! Llanito world is read by young people. How dare YOU??? YOU ARE A DISGRACE & A FOOL!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-43692462930357750812010-12-01T19:43:59.654+01:002010-12-01T19:43:59.654+01:00Has Britain ever told Spain they will never pass G...Has Britain ever told Spain they will never pass Gibraltar to Spain or anyone else because it’s theirs? <br />I only remember reading that they would not pass sovereignty to Spain without the consent of the Gibraltarians inhabitants.<br />ISN’T THAT SAYING WE WOULD BUT CANT BECAUSE OF THE GIBRALTARIANS? <br />1704Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-22854236992688238572010-12-01T19:32:21.763+01:002010-12-01T19:32:21.763+01:00Ghost says;
Oh Robert what to do, you would do we...Ghost says;<br /><br />Oh Robert what to do, you would do well as an etymologist.<br /><br />I have never suggested that the U.K holds the key and I think it remains clear to all that Spain is and will always be that key holder. Whilst we live in a world where Spain remains in this untenable position, we in turn and by default are presented with a world of our own and one in which we need to seek to maximize and evolve. It is under this pretext that we did in fact exercise our right to self determination. And we should strive to seek further if positions change, as they have in the past.<br /><br />You talk about Spain exercising an element of sovereignty over us.........accepted, but you could argue that France and Germany have exercised an element of the same over Ireland. As PRC said in Seville, who really is truly independent? Whether it be financially, socially, constitutionally. We have an age old position which we have begun to control thanks to our execution of our right to determine our future in today's reality, that being with the 2006 constitution. We move on and now we address Spain, with full confidence in our new position.<br /><br />GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-1171805618023812382010-12-01T18:14:11.672+01:002010-12-01T18:14:11.672+01:00Touchy are we?? It is a well known quote! Anyway...Touchy are we?? It is a well known quote! Anyways for the third time......<br /><br />Dear Mr. Ghost I believe it is YOU and not Mr. Vazquez who is interpreting things conveniently.<br />I admire Robert for coming out publicly and speaking his mind whilst people such as yourself and many others hide behind sudo-names and post anonymously. Cowards the lot of you!! <br />I take it you saw the Letter’s published yesterday in the Chronicle by Joe Caruana (No relation to Peter) and Maurice Xiberras? BOTH FORMER MINISTERS and members of the BRITISH INTEGRATION party might I add. In these aforementioned letters they both CONDEMN the Chief Ministers Comments as do I and many other Gibraltarians. Let me remind you it was the CHIEF MINISTER HIMSELF who MENTIONED the ANDORRA “arrangement” and NOT the Spanish Politicians. It seems to me that our usually politically savvy Chief Minister SLIPPED up (if it was only for a mere second) and blurted out what he has always been open to a SPANISH GIBRALTAR.<br />Yet according to the GSD Fraction (e.g. you) people such as myself & TWO RETIRED MINISTERS with no ties what so ever to the GSLP party are PARANOID. The Chronicle (which the Government controls) "misquotes" the Chief Minister as does the Scottsman Website and the Youtube Video is misinterpreted by members of the public who don't understand English/Spanish properly. Do you REALLY BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OF GIBRALTAR ARE THAT GULLIBLE?? The Cat is out of the Bag my friend and everyone can see it!!<br />What the Chief Minister should have said is NO TO SPAIN!! NO TO THE ANDORRA STATUS and NO to ANYTHING that gives SPAIN a FOOTHOLD IN OUR LAND!<br />Please note that under the current ANDORRA “Arrangement” the Head of Government (e.g Caruana) if not satisfied with his current Council, may request that the Co-princes (prince of Spain for example) to dissolve the Council and order new elections. IN TURN, the Councilors have the power to remove the Head of Government from office. After a motion of censure is approved by at least one-fifth of the Councilors (which would probably consist of other Pro-Spanish members), the Council will vote and if it receives the absolute majority of votes, the Prime Minister is REMOVED. Therefore the SPANISH Monarchy under an ANDORRA type “arrangement” could DE-ELECT the peoples Government of choice! What this means is that BY LAW the people of Gibraltar could be subjected to a form of Spanish Dictatorship!!! <br />Wake up and start thinking with your hearts and not your damn pockets before it is too late!!Kaelan Joycenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-44201904561341860642010-12-01T18:10:51.076+01:002010-12-01T18:10:51.076+01:00Ghost
A constarined esercise in SELF DETERMINATIO...Ghost<br /><br />A constarined esercise in SELF DETERMINATION? That is a greta theory but I think that a vist to the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary will dispel that idea!<br /><br />Spain's position does not weaken at an institutional level. It is less stridently pursued perhaps but do not interpret this as a weakening on fundamentals.<br /><br />I disagree with your analysis of the what the 2006 Constitution has done but I will never convince you. But you concede that we have to look to Spain and not Britain for our future constitutional evolution? Is that not Spain exercising an element of sovereignty over us in practice rather than as a matter of law (de facto rather than de jure? I do not disagree but WOW!Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-62714106538668458522010-12-01T18:03:14.254+01:002010-12-01T18:03:14.254+01:00Ghost says:
Might there be such a thing as an exe...Ghost says:<br /><br />Might there be such a thing as an exercise of self determination within elements of constraint and affected by circumstance; that being that the U.K will not at this stage move further on its position hence the current constitution and that it is unwilling to move further because of the relationship with Spain? Is there no logic in keeping an open door to dialogue with Spain whilst at the same time holding them to account when there is an opportunity to do so? And if as has been the case over the past decade we continue to be strong economically and righteous in our resolve, might we not see a gain in a position on which right is clearly on our side? <br /><br />If this was the case would it not be short sighted for anyone to suggest that our current status cannot be improved upon because that same constitution, which in my view only reflects a phase of movement toward progress, deems that our right to self determination has already been exercised? <br /><br />Surely we can aspire to further movement given that the age old position (undemocratic that it is) of Spain is weakening by the day. It seems to me that PRC has secured our position first and foremost with the party that controls it – that being Britain, this is now enshrined in our constitution, which was an act of self determination within the parameters of the day. The key however, is not Britain we know this; the mind set of Spain may in future lead way to further acts of self determination, and which can lead to constitutional changes that provide us with many versions of independence, autonomy, call it what you will. <br /><br />My point being that PRC is taking his case to the Spaniards now with the full backing and confidence that Britain will stand by us. On the one hand he is showing them a willingness for dialogue, whilst on the other he is rightfully reminding them of their democratic duty as a European Nation.<br /><br />GAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-42508644215410696982010-12-01T18:02:20.390+01:002010-12-01T18:02:20.390+01:00Kaelan Joyce
You still have the reference to a ph...Kaelan Joyce<br /><br />You still have the reference to a physical disability that I will not publish. Please delete that and i will publish.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-91380145821886699172010-12-01T17:09:25.674+01:002010-12-01T17:09:25.674+01:00Anonymous 15:31
I cannot answer for the CM but it...Anonymous 15:31<br /><br />I cannot answer for the CM but it is rather confusing, not to say contradictory, isn't it?<br /><br />I have always been of the view that the referendum on the 2006 Constitution was not an exercise in self determination. I have no problem with that, myself, but I do have a problem with it being characterised (wrongly in my opinion) as such by politicians.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-90429273621878780412010-12-01T17:00:08.261+01:002010-12-01T17:00:08.261+01:00So when Mr Caruana says
"The current status...So when Mr Caruana says <br /><br />"The current status quo does not displease us, it pleases us, but is it the final status for Gibraltar? I personally think that it is not" <br /><br />is he then accepting that Gibraltar did not get self determination with the 2006 referendum?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-81429324972264847122010-12-01T15:31:08.310+01:002010-12-01T15:31:08.310+01:00Anonymous at 12:08 poses a very pertinent question...Anonymous at 12:08 poses a very pertinent question. I do not believe that the 2006 Constitution was an exercise of the right to self determination. There are those who do and have so stated publicly, the CM included. He sold it as such at the time of the 2006 Referendum. You will recall that I headed the "NO" campaign. <br /><br />Why then does he think the existing status is not enough? It should be for him who has said it the 2006 Constitution referendum was an exercis of self determination by Gibraltar. I do not think by accepting the 2006 Constitution in a referendum Gibraltar has exercised the right to self determination but the 2006 Constitution is good enough for me, save that, as I have said above, the democratic deficit has to be made up by reforms introduced by our Parliament, now that they were not introduced by the 2006 Constitution. <br /><br />The UK have essentially said (in the Despatch to the 2006 Constitution)that the 2006 Constitution is as far as they will go. The practical effect of this is that any further progress toward independence (or call it self determination if you like) is achievable only with the agreement of Spain. In my view that is what the 2006 "self determination" referendum achieved for Gibraltar. Briefly, confirmation that beacuse of the Treaty of Utrecht Spain has a say in that issue. Admittedly, Gibraltar on the face of the Despatch records its disagreement to that stae of affairs but, in my view, that is a legalistic and not a real or political approach to the issue.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.com