tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post2005344936763194509..comments2023-05-19T13:43:33.131+02:00Comments on LLanito World: Public Borrowings ... Have Legal Limits been Exceeded?Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-60202836169232333302011-07-21T23:19:13.267+02:002011-07-21T23:19:13.267+02:00RV,
I disagree on a couple of points:
1. The ele...RV,<br /><br />I disagree on a couple of points:<br /><br />1. The electorate tacitly agree, possibly even by default, to certain things as being important to society when they vote for the Party with the manifesto (warts and all) that they think offers the best solutions.<br /><br />2. I believe that part of an electorate can fail. Very much like if I where to bet on a horse that offered the better odds and yet failed to win. Perhaps "Fail" is too strong a word but I think you get my point!<br /><br />Y con esto descanso...wonderful exchange even ahora que estoy de holiday away from my Rock...looking ahead to some horse riding and plenty of golf...Disciple Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-22134975363280075972011-07-21T23:00:28.272+02:002011-07-21T23:00:28.272+02:00Disciple X
I do not agree that what they think is...Disciple X<br /><br />I do not agree that what they think is important is what our society need e.g. an air terminal in priority to a power station? Both were promised in the GSD manifesto the later by a date certain long gone by and not started yet. So the power station was in the manifesto and yes on that one they have failed (including failed the public) in my view doubly (a) in not meeting a manifesto promise and (b) n wrong prioritisation of expenditure. The electorate cannot by definition fail but I agree the public has to choose carefully within the limitations of what is on offer.<br /><br />Anonymous at 22:37<br /><br />Yes but I did not intend to imply that a "war chest" was needed or essential. I was making a totally different point about how one decides what is needed or essential.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-1721235809653609242011-07-21T22:53:15.900+02:002011-07-21T22:53:15.900+02:00RV@22:37
A "war chest" was neither need...RV@22:37<br /><br />A "war chest" was neither needed nor essential unless you treat the UK and Spain with the abrasiveness that Mr Bossano did at the time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-70241625962856079832011-07-21T22:43:45.611+02:002011-07-21T22:43:45.611+02:00RV,
Grateful for the debate, pero the "desi...RV, <br /><br />Grateful for the debate, pero the "desires" that you refer to, are of late becoming, the de facto 4 year test!<br /><br />What they think is important is often an indication of what our society really needs plus some other extras that they think can get them a Distinction as opposed to a Pass.<br /><br />As it is any party that does not fulfil the wish list are rapidly labelled as having "failed".<br /><br />Am I right in assuming, for arguments sake, that if a power station was not in say, this Government's manifesto they have failed?<br /><br />Or has the Government by having ignored it in their manifesto, failed the Public?<br /><br />Or, stretched even further, has the electorate failed at not realising this gaffe!<br /><br />I am certainly rambling right now and my example is probably way out of the mark - I need my Rioja, where has she hidden it? lol... <br /><br />What I am trying to point out is that the Public sometimes has a responsibility to choose appropriately and then entrust to those that they have every confidence will deliver.<br /><br />My problem with manifestos is that they don't explain how, in simple and laymans terms, they hope to achieve everything!!<br /><br />Ah! found it.... ;)Disciple Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-49080839997229046322011-07-21T22:37:49.577+02:002011-07-21T22:37:49.577+02:00Anonymous at 22:34
Yes, and?Anonymous at 22:34<br /><br />Yes, and?Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-88171375452542897572011-07-21T22:34:48.493+02:002011-07-21T22:34:48.493+02:00V@20:57
You've got on your hobby horse again....V@20:57<br /><br />You've got on your hobby horse again. Please read what Anon@08:54 posted again and then read what Anon@20:49 responded. We appear to have applied different interpretations of the word "essentials". By the way you forgot to mention the much trodden on and massively expensive stone paving of the city centre.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-27913363790506220252011-07-21T22:12:36.403+02:002011-07-21T22:12:36.403+02:00Disciple X
Not at all I agree with your observati...Disciple X<br /><br />Not at all I agree with your observations, however, elections do not determine "need" they determines "desires" :)<br /><br />Also it is not "goals that WE think are important" it is goals that THEY think are important and we choose from what is OFFERED :)<br /><br />NB Capitals used for emphasis not to show any anger :)Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-52924898191733785022011-07-21T22:07:36.546+02:002011-07-21T22:07:36.546+02:00RV,
Very good points...
Hence the existence of p...RV,<br /><br />Very good points...<br /><br />Hence the existence of party manifestos where we read and digest what parties want to achieve.<br /><br />Hence the existence of political parties where each produce a wish list of achievable targets that they think they can pull off.<br /><br />Hence elections where we elect those who belong to the same party that we believe are capable of achieving those goals that we think are important.<br /><br />Hence why I think the Public think Independents have a difficult task to form part of Government.<br /><br />Hence why I think Independents are almost unelectable.<br /><br />Hence why reform may be needed or maybe not!!<br /><br />Ready to be shot down ;)Disciple Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-83348907364312687342011-07-21T20:57:40.140+02:002011-07-21T20:57:40.140+02:00Anonymous at 20:49
"no government has the ri...Anonymous at 20:49<br /><br />"no government has the right to take one penny more than it needs" that is a big big statement. Need? Who decides what is needed? Is a leisure centre needed? is a spanking new Air Terminal needed? Is a power station needed more or less than the other two? Is affordable housing needed subsidised by taxpayers when some benefit and others don't? Who decides what is needed? Or is it down to the policy of each government?<br /><br />Think about it ...Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-54285583505899981312011-07-21T20:49:56.312+02:002011-07-21T20:49:56.312+02:00Anon@08:54
I do not agree with Mr Gomez's bla...Anon@08:54<br /><br />I do not agree with Mr Gomez's blank vote campaign.<br /><br />However I do agree with you that Mr Bossano left the coffers full. I would point out though that at that time he called it a "war chest". The financial reserves that he called a "war chest" was meant to sustain us financially should the consequences of his belligerence towards Spain and the UK ever require this reserve.<br /><br />My principles dictate that no government has the right to take one penny more than it needs in order to pay the essentials. Remember that at that time we were the highest taxed WORKERS in Europe.<br /><br />What on earth was he thinking?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-34077423406860510682011-07-21T19:17:43.326+02:002011-07-21T19:17:43.326+02:00RV@17:15
I am sure that although the information ...RV@17:15<br /><br />I am sure that although the information you refer to is not normally published it can be obtained from the Accountant General. I have a feeling that the whole amount is not deposited at the same rate of interest but in separate tranches.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-66579861874526979602011-07-21T18:44:20.485+02:002011-07-21T18:44:20.485+02:00L.E.F. says,
Another way to see things.
If we sp...L.E.F. says,<br /><br />Another way to see things.<br /><br />If we spend £17.5 million per year on interest.<br />In 10 years we will have spent £175 million.<br />Enough to build 3 new airterminals in 10 years.<br /><br />Could this not be viewed as money down the drain?<br /><br />With a budget surplus of £30 million + £17.5 million in interest we have enough money to do things slowly and surley.<br /><br />We could have approximately £45 million a year to spend on capital projects without having this mountain of debt which one day has to be paid back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-76534774861004037982011-07-21T17:15:48.049+02:002011-07-21T17:15:48.049+02:00Disciple X
A lot less sad than me ... still at th...Disciple X<br /><br />A lot less sad than me ... still at the office y lo ke keda!<br /><br />The answer to your question is that I do not know if that information is in the public domain.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-74691150662855568862011-07-21T16:31:37.988+02:002011-07-21T16:31:37.988+02:00RV,
Back from the pool, sad guy I'm turning o...RV,<br /><br />Back from the pool, sad guy I'm turning out to be :(<br /><br />Yes that is my assumption.<br /><br />Is there any way of knowing if these borrowings are pinned to base or LIBOR? Are these divulged in Parliament?<br /><br />I am hoping that at the very least that they are fixed on a low interest. In any case, I'm also hoping we are getting a good deal!!!Disciple Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-10552294173912193342011-07-21T14:56:59.068+02:002011-07-21T14:56:59.068+02:00Disciple X
Your assessment also assumes that borr...Disciple X<br /><br />Your assessment also assumes that borrowings are on fixed interest and not variable interest rates pinned to base rate or LIBIOR.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-69528397077112516672011-07-21T14:52:14.739+02:002011-07-21T14:52:14.739+02:00Anon 14:23
Yes that was the crux of my suggestion...Anon 14:23<br /><br />Yes that was the crux of my suggestion!Disciple Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-23636924721827659522011-07-21T14:50:10.545+02:002011-07-21T14:50:10.545+02:00RV
I take your points.
This is my interpretation...RV<br /><br />I take your points.<br /><br />This is my interpretation in layman’s terms:<br /><br />There is a benchmark which equals £200,000,000.00<br /><br />There is two accepted formulae. If either of these produce higher amounts i.e. greater than £200,000,000.00, then the lower of the two will become the benchmark. Therefore, for arguments sake, if:<br /><br />Formula 1 – GDP - is £250,000,000.00 and<br />Formula 2 – CFRAR- is £300,000,000.00<br /><br />Then the new benchmark becomes £250,000,000.00 and not £200,000,000.00<br /><br />If however the (Formula 3) Annual Debt Service Ratio ("ADSR") of the gross public debt does not exceed 8% then we are okay. If it has then there has been a violation but I very much doubt it.<br /><br />The problem as I see it is whether the criteria for all three formulae, as you rightly point out, has been independently assessed.<br /><br />I would think that GDP would be difficult to assess, hence my suspicion that CFRAR has been used. This in my opinion is a risky alternative because it relies heavily but not predominantly on selective Revenue.<br /><br />Grateful for comment <br /><br />Y con esto me voy a la piscina!!!Disciple Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-66867808762736533322011-07-21T14:46:11.790+02:002011-07-21T14:46:11.790+02:00Anonymous at 14:23
That is one view and a valid o...Anonymous at 14:23<br /><br />That is one view and a valid one too ... affordability as economies downturn is another, surely?Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-35004997618517817732011-07-21T14:23:49.256+02:002011-07-21T14:23:49.256+02:00Desciple X, are you saying that taking advantage o...Desciple X, are you saying that taking advantage of a strong economy against a weak global economy with genarally low interest rates throughout is to be used to our advantage? It makes sense, borrow for long term capital investments and pay the lowest interest rate that we have seen for decades.<br />But surely that would suggest that all those arguing that the GSD have it all wrong and are placing Gibraltar under threat of financial bankcrupcy, would themselves be mistaken? I wonder where on earth they might be getting that from?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-2795049101368256092011-07-21T13:09:39.470+02:002011-07-21T13:09:39.470+02:00Disciple X
I accept that it is a valid considerat...Disciple X<br /><br />I accept that it is a valid consideration for those who wish to borrow so long as they take the view that interest rates will go up sufficiently to cover the interest costs of borrowing now and obtaining a low return on the borrowed monies until that time. <br /><br />The level of borrowing is not a debate that I beleive I have joined. My point is (i) a legal one as to whether legal levels have been exceeded, which I believe depends on interpretation and (ii) questioning whether such a fundamental matter as borrowing powers should be open to different interpretations.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-9231682898969279472011-07-21T11:49:35.586+02:002011-07-21T11:49:35.586+02:00RV,
Regarding borrowing now.
Given that the inte...RV,<br /><br />Regarding borrowing now.<br /><br />Given that the interest rates are quite low, does it not make sense to borrow now by fixing long term at low rates. <br /><br />Interest rates are very likely to go up soon!<br /><br />Open to comment.Disciple Xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-17946996559103531192011-07-21T11:15:25.290+02:002011-07-21T11:15:25.290+02:00Anon 08:30. If interest rates were at 4% we wouldn...Anon 08:30. If interest rates were at 4% we wouldn't need to have £280m+ in the bank classed as gross debt and paying .05% to further subsidise by the tax payer would we.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-25275726606983176522011-07-21T08:54:14.594+02:002011-07-21T08:54:14.594+02:00"Yond Cassius" Gomez is now trying to te..."Yond Cassius" Gomez is now trying to tell us that the GSLP and the GSD are as bad as one another. Part of his cunning campaign to convince us to vote blank? In reality Joe Bossano's last government left Gibraltar's coffers full and when Peter Caruana leaves office this year he will leave us under a mountain of debt in a time of world wide economic crisis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-80064558884541886372011-07-21T08:30:59.519+02:002011-07-21T08:30:59.519+02:00Bank of England interest rates at the moment are a...Bank of England interest rates at the moment are at an all time low of 0.5% but in 1989 when Mr. Caruana was still in short trousers it was 14% ie 28 times higher. The forecast is that there will be increases soon. If there is a substantial interest rate of even 3 or 4 % the borrowing situation will look very different. In banking regulation terms Peter Caruana is what is known as as "inexperienced investor" requiring protection. What do the professionals like the Principal Auditor and the Financial Secretary think? These gents should be given immunity from Carucriminations and asked to make a candid report to Parliament.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-9422615746571906722011-07-21T00:04:15.501+02:002011-07-21T00:04:15.501+02:00Disciple X
I have purposely not joined in the arg...Disciple X<br /><br />I have purposely not joined in the argument about whether the public debt is too high or not. This is a judgment that the government has to make and only time will tell who is right. What I have said is that it is difficult to see how other essential projects will be funded. I refer to, for example, the power station and the sewage treatment plant.<br /><br />If pensioners are scared they should be reassured. This is the responsibility of the government to do. I tried to give some reassurance with my explanation in my blog "Budget Observations".<br /><br />I agree that language used by politicians should be tempered and have so said in the past. It is likely to get worse. Unfortunately the Speaker has opened a pandoras box by allowing unparliamentary language in Parliament.<br /><br />I will not split hairs on your suggestion that I hold the GSD in contempt. I will simply disagree. If having my own independent views is to show contempt so be it but I have expressed views about the Leader of the Opposition which are as strong.<br /><br />Thank you for your compliment on my blog. As to my responses, I take your point. It just angers me if words that I have not written are put in my mouth as the basis of a critical argument against my opinion. I am very precise and careful about what I write. This tactic is a GSD one, frequently used by them. I will heed your advice however.<br /><br />As to the interpretation of section 3 of the Act, I have accepted that the CM's interpretation is perfectly plausible. The point is that there is an alternative interpretation. I believe on such a fundamental matter the law should be clear and not open to alternative interpretations.<br /><br />I too would be more conservative and borrow less as you would :) Only time will tell which approach is right.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.com