tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post1764549340493190720..comments2023-05-19T13:43:33.131+02:00Comments on LLanito World: The Thorny Subject - SovereigntyLlanito World-Robert Vasquezhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-64255468704345384852010-01-27T10:17:48.791+01:002010-01-27T10:17:48.791+01:00It is up to Madrid to disavow the regions of the p...It is up to Madrid to disavow the regions of the perception that a relationship can exist outside the state but with an association of some kind. Gibraltar and the regions cannot, in any case, be seen in the same constitutional context and should the regions seek to use (as they sometimes do) Gibraltar as an example or template for their own future status, they would be making a gross political miscalculation.<br /><br />The Gibraltar context is an entirely different one, not least because unlike them Gibraltar has not formed part of the Spanish state, or Spanish national territory, since 1704.<br /><br />Our relationship with Spain is not - and never has been - a case of secession, which is why it serves our cause no benefit whatsoever (in the past, present or future) to associate ourselves with separatist movements of any kind in Spain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-30381813210009358752010-01-26T22:37:55.827+01:002010-01-26T22:37:55.827+01:00Despite Gibraltar not forming any part of the Span...Despite Gibraltar not forming any part of the Spanish state the internal constitutional struggle between Madrid and the regions of Spain cannot be ignored. The issue will be their perception that a relationship can exist outside the Spanish state with some continuing relationship. A stretched argument but it is emotion that takes over from pragmatism in these situations.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-11433073455943920792010-01-26T10:02:18.275+01:002010-01-26T10:02:18.275+01:00I fully recognise (as I have above) that my propos...I fully recognise (as I have above) that my proposal is not very achievable as things stand at present.<br /><br />Spain is, for the time being at least, unwilling or unable to drop the sovereignty claim and thus change her "anachronistic historical position". Gibraltar is equally unwilling to accept a role (however small or symbolic) for Spain in her affairs. As a result, we have an impasse, one which I readily accept is extremely difficult to break.<br /><br />Whereas I am uncomfortable with certain aspects of the Cordoba Process, perhaps one thing it WILL achieve of benefit to us is the fact that it will pave the way for trilateral negotiation on sovereignty at some future juncture (i.e. it will predispose Spain to accepting that sovereignty should be a game of three and not two) and that from such a framework something along the "Andorra" line could bear fruit. In other words, Cordoba may produce little of real tangible worth now, but perhaps its value will be seen in creating an "atmosphere" conducive to the practical (trilateral) resolution of the sovereignty question at some point in future.<br /><br />With regard to Spain's "own internal political struggles with its various autonomies", I do not see this as a problem. I should make it clear that under my proposal Gibraltar would in NO WAY form part of the Spanish state, in the same way as Andorra is not part of the Spanish state now. As such, the internal constitutional struggles between Madrid and the regions of Spain would not impact on our own position.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-1519908706168046152010-01-25T20:30:55.875+01:002010-01-25T20:30:55.875+01:00Not only extremely interesting but there is nothin...Not only extremely interesting but there is nothing in this with which I would disagree. The issue is how achievable is your second proposal in the context of Spain's anachronistic historical position and its own internal political struggles with its various autonomies? Accepted that these are not reasons not to strive for your suggestion.Llanito World-Robert Vasquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03683191110402987525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-87709829282495517022010-01-22T10:58:22.586+01:002010-01-22T10:58:22.586+01:00I agree that, despite the 2006 Constitution, Gibra...I agree that, despite the 2006 Constitution, Gibraltar’s status continues to be that of a colony or, more accurately, a UK Overseas Territory and that further constitutional reform, ultimately aimed at securing the maximum devolution of powers from the UK, is desirable.<br /><br />I also agree that, currently, independence is not a feasible option, not because of any limitations of physical size (as you suggest) but simply because it would not be politically or economically practical to embark on a course of action that is sure to offend Spain. That is simply a case of political-economic reality, bitter as the pill may be to swallow.<br /><br />From a personal persepective, integration (with either the UK or Spain) is out of the question, for a variety of reasons. The most obvious of these being that such a course of action would betray our identity as a distinct people and, at a stroke, destroy half a century of hard-won concessions.<br /><br />So, what are we left with? In my opinion, there are two possible courses of action open to us:<br /><br />Firstly, we explore the possibility of pursuing free association with the UK (with the likely outcome that the UK would reject this on the grounds that it would put at risk the delicate balance of its own diplomatic relations with Spain). <br /><br />Secondly, and perhaps controversially, we explore formulae to make independence a “feasible option”. How would we do this? The key in such a project would be to bring Spain “onside”. Admittedly, this has two important prerequisites – the acceptance by Gibraltar that Spain should have a role to play in her affairs, and the termination by Spain of her claim on Gibraltar. Neither of these are likely to happen any time soon, but at least we can begin to introduce these concepts into the political discourse and chip slowly away at the anachronstic positions held on either side of the frontier.<br /><br />I am, technically, advocating an Andorra-type solution. “Andorra” is often misunderstood in Gibraltar as essentially joint sovereignty. This is not the case. The 1993 Andorran constitution vests the sovereignty of Andorra IN THE ANDORRAN PEOPLE, with Spain and France acting as international guarantors of that status. Additionally, a 1993 Treaty of Vicinage, Friendship and Cooperation between Andorra, Spain and France guides how diplomatic and other relations between the three (in an Andorran context) are managed. <br /><br />At the very least, this model, and specifically how it could be transferred to Gibraltar (allowing of course for necessary modifications so that it can better fit the Gibraltar context) merits closer study. Instead of miring ourselves in the sovereignty discourse of the 1960s and 1970s, we would do well to begin thinking “outside the box” as we enter the second decade of the 21st century. <br /><br />The important thing is not to sit back and be spoon-fed initiatives by the UK, Spain, or both. If the joint sovereignty debacle of 2002 taught us anything, it should be that, from now on, WE should be the proactive party providing formulas and solutions to OUR constitutional future.<br /><br />Gibraltar deserves no less.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2247742529089642474.post-32532492045125417572010-01-19T09:54:22.547+01:002010-01-19T09:54:22.547+01:00our system is in dire need of reform at present th...our system is in dire need of reform at present the system is essentially an elected dictatorship where the government has four years where it is guaranteed to get it way on every issue. We either need an effective back bench element or a right of recall where the people can by petion dissolve parliament and call a general election.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com